>>I agree with you on Madison being a religious man. I have no problem with that. I do have a little problem with his comment you quoted ("not yet yielded to the evidence"). What evidence? Can it be proved? In a court of law?
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These were Madison's words, however I agree. Creation demands a creator.

>>You see I can't prove it one way or the other. I am not an atheist as you see but an agnostic.
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>>Peace.
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>Actually, I think Jefferson and Madison got it most right in the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom:
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>http://www.civnet.org/resoures/teach/basic/part7/42.htm
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>>Be it enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
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>When I read this it does not describe "a wall of separation between church and state". What is says is that your freedom, rights, and powers should be in no way affected by what you believe.
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>Put the question of school prayer in this light. Say I am a Muslim and in the habit of praying to Mecca 6 times a day. The state should not interfere with this even when I am in a government building. Likewise a designated moment of silence in a school does not "diminish, enlarge, or affect" my civil capacities.
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>On the other hand a mandated Christian or Buddhist prayer coming over the school loud-speaker each morning would certainly diminish my private practice of my Hindu beliefs (for instance).

Agreed! I believe Doug and I would also agree with this statement. As for prayer in school, I've heard it said, "as long as they give tests in school, there will be prayer." I seem to recall that!

>According to this standard, Doug should be "free to profess, and by argument to maintain, [his] opinion in matters of religion." Even in the UT.
>Of course, it also useful and courteous of Doug to respect the fact that others may have a different conception (or lack of conception) than his.
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>Peter

Agreed again.