Alex,

If I may.

First of all a disclaimer: I'm not too sure how other faiths view what I'll post next so please forgive me if I unintentionally step on your toes, ok? What I'll post stems from what I'd call "The Historic Christian" position - which contains a tacit recognition that (unfortunately) there are many many conflicting and competing concepts. It's pretty nasty actually but that's another thread. <g>

It all kind of revolves around a few concepts.

First of all are the three most commonly noted characteristics of God. We identify them as:

1) Omnipotence - All powerful
2) Omnipresence - Everywhere at the same time
3) Omniscience - All knowledge

I believe you were referring to a couple of these in your message.

I will only say that while we may understand and agree on the definitions of the above words I'd think that no one really can completely get their head around them. Simple. If you could then you'd have trait #3 and you'd be God. <g> None of us do and none of us are. <g>

Secondly are some of what are characteristics or traits that we may find easier to relate to as we often see counterparts in our daily life. Love, hate (yes God does hate), holiness, joy, peace, etc..

Another portion of God that men have discussed and written many books upon are quite a bit more interesting (to me anyway) and they would be things like personality, self-knowledge, wisdom, restraint, etc..

Here's kind of where I think we can relate the most to God.

For example, apart from the Historic Christian belief system I'm not too sure what other faiths say about God having personality. Not a personality (though I dont' see why not) but personality. That is, he communicates to others and receives communications back. He interacts. I won't go down the road where folks try and define the HC notion of the Trinity but it is a huge issue here. (yet another thread for the hard to hold back. <g>) Suffice it to say that this is where we are logically able to derive the notion that we also are able to communicate.

This is a part of the notion of where in Genesis it states that mankind was made in the "image" of God. God is able to communicate - we are as well..

Add to this the notion of self-knowledge and we're just about where we can proceed. As an aside, humans are the only 'species' that has this self-knowledge and the attendent culture - though the rabid evolutionist will always argue this - again not where I'd like to go.

Ok.... If God has all these traits it is not unreasonable to deduce that He has what we call 'choice'. He can choose anything He'd like - only in His case, combined with the first three (3) traits; the 'Omni's' if you will, He's going to make perfect choices.

I think your confusion lies in that you and I are not perfect. We do not see all as God does. Any choice He'd make would be perfect. Neither you nor I could argue with it. IOW, He simply will not make non-perfect choices.

Also, for God there would be no 'future' nor a 'past'. Everything would be 'present' to Him (as best as we can determine. Your premise of Him being 'stuck' falls apart since He is in the future at the same time He is in the present and the past. He simply 'is'. The trouble is is that you and I are stuck in this thing we call time. Remember, since He created everything time is also created.

Does your head hurt yet? <g>?

Now, here's the really cool thing. Read the following carefully;

God chose to give us choice - and to respect the choices we's make. When He did this (though 'when' isn't a good term - it's time-based <g>) He also knew every single choice we'd make. So, no decision I make is a surprose to Him. He'll not ever be surprised by anything I say or do.

Now.. God would like us to choose His way. He knows who will and who will not - and will respect those choices. Not like many of them, particularly by those who choose to reject Him.

However, no one can ever say He was unfair. He gave us choice. If we choose NOT His way then when any man stands before Him there will be no excuses. For those who do choose His way there will also be no surprises.

God didn't want little robots. Since one of His traits is love and love can never be coerced then out of necessity it MUST be a freely made choice - not mechanical or instinct. We have to want to love God in return.

So.. God creates man and gives man the ability to both hate and love Him in return. But, it must not be artificial to be valide or 'real'. You cannot force love or it ceases to be love.

The risk, if you will? That many will choose to not love God while some will choose to love Him. Apparently God saw that enough people would choose to love Him that it was 'worth' all of this. All those who choose to hate Him are also free to choose not to hate Him, just as all those who choose to love Him are equally free to choose not to love Him.

He just knows who's who since He has all knowledge and is outsode of time.

Now, God can choose His friends just like you or I. He has no obligation to choose you or me whatsoever but He has said in the Bible that He will positively choose anyone who choose Him. For those who choose to not choose they are responsible for that choice, just as those who choose to choose Him receive the benefits of that choice.

So.. God chooses me and I choose Him.

And, every man will only have this one choice to be responsible for - only one. Nothing else matters.

From my perspective it's a piece of cake.

A man is no fool who gives up that which he cannot keep in order to gain that which he cannot lose.

For all others I understand their choice and the responsibility for that choice. I cannot change them but I can talk with them and perhaps persuade them...

The 'trick' is to not anthropomorphiae one's thoughts - something we all do to one extent or another. That's trying to make God look like us. Silly really.

I don't know if that helps or causes more confusion. Sorry if you're more confused. I'm not always too good at this - particularly with a medium like this.

Anyway, there's a lot more that should be gone over but this will more than likely produce enough of a higher message count that Michel will be very grateful for moving all of this to a Chatter section (a good move IMO).

If you have any questions I'll be more than happy to give you the best answer I can.

The rest is up to you....

<g>





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Question: Do you believe God is Omniscient and Omnipotent? IOW Can He see/know everything? Does He have the power to do anything and everything? Is He everywhere? At all times?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Yes I believe He is both. Ask me how, and I'll tell you I don't know. Then again, any god I could fully understand wouldn't be much of a god, would he?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Now I'm confused. How can He be both? If someone's omniscient then he/she can see everything, so the future is no mistery as it is all seen and planned in advance, right?
>If I'm omnipotent, then I can do whatever I want with no limits. So I can change the future. But if I do, then the future I 'pre-viewed' has been changed, so I didn't foresee I'd change it. So I'm not omniscient.
>
>If I'm omniscient, then it follows that I cannot deviate from the future I've seen, so I have that limit, so I can't be both omniscient *and* omnipotent. It's either one or the other as they are mutually exclusive. It's simple logic.
>
>Remember what happens when an inmovable object encounters an irresistible force? Same thing. It's an impossibility. Both cannot exist in the Universe. Either one or the other, and of course there is a third alternative: neither.