>Well, you and I have gone the rounds vis a vis the whole current approach (or lack thereof <g>) to education so I suppose we don't need to revisit that though I do feel that it is a component.

I think the popular culture has a lot more to do with it. I've now sent a kid all the way through public school to graduation and I can promise you that his teachers didn't want to hear those words in school any more than I want to hear them from my kids at home.

Tamar