Chris,

>Sorry, I misread your follow-up to Walter Meesters (?) post as supporting native keys. Regardless, the my argument is still the same. People giving advice in this forum are not paid. They contribute for whatever reason: sense of community, pride, fishing for more work, whatever. Either way, they contribute without being paid, so far as I know.

Yes, it was Walter M's response...my quoting could use some work... *smile*

I know what you are saying, and I always thank whomever replies to my questions, even if the posts don't happen to help my cause.

But in keeping with the "they aren't paid..." theme...if they aren't paid in the first place, how do they have time to give me an answer that isn't really even an answer to my question? I have had occasions where the thread ends up going several messages before the people helping me finally deem my methodology as acceptable, or at least necessary in the given situation, and then finally give me the answer they could have just given in the first place. That ends up taking even more unpaid time than just a simple answer from the start would have.

>And when they tell me not to do something, like maybe scrollable forms, it doesn't mean I won't use them, I just don't expect their help when I post a question about them.

But they may have help to offer. Or someone else might. I don't appreciate the wasted bandwidth of a post that says something is bad when a few posts down someone tells me how to do what I need. Why waste the thread's time?

>FWIW, I just did a search over the past 6 months in this forum and found a number of positive responses on scrollable forms. Ko Wisse and Bruce Campbell to name two. One person advised not to use them, but still offered a solution.

Well, scrollable forms became more doable upon the release of VFP 6, which was some time ago (more than six months). You are probably right, it probably doesn't happen as much as my moaning would have you believe, but it has happened several times, and scrollable forms are just one of the recurring items that stands out. Don't get me wrong, the number if genuinely helpful posts far outweighs the type of thing I am complaining about, but I still wanted to make my point.

>I completely disagree. When I hear, "we tried that and it sucked", I want to know why. I do not want to repeat someone else's mistakes. If they tried it and

Me too! If you give me a concrete example of why it sucked, like "try this code", then your advice is outstanding! But I have seen plenty of anecdotal comments made without any hard proof. Not to pick on JVP, but his offhand comments on how VFP's remote data access (using views) is "lousy" sparked quote a thread, and rightly so. If he had stated in his same post a test he had done with SQL Server that showed the lousiness he referred to, I am certain that John Ryan would not have been so dogged in his resistance to the "lousy" comment.

>it sucked because they don't know what they're doing, fine. If I respect their opinion, then I want to learn from their experience. And if I hear non-standard, I especially pay attention. I have done non-standard things in the past, and it has bitten me in the a**. Always? No. But more often than not.

And for me, more often than not I come up with a goofy-ass way of doing something (sometimes it turns out to be standard, most times not) and it works great! Have I been bitten in the ass, sure! Was it the best thing to ever happen to me? You bet! I have learned far more from being bitten than from my successes...

The problem with the phrase "non-standard" is that I don't know to whom one is referring when the word is used. "Non-standard" according to Microsoft? God? My dog Skippy? The "industry"? Where are these standards? There's no Rosetta Stone of database programming out there as far as I know...

>And you could always pay MS or a paid consultant $150/hour, or whatever they charge and maybe not get the personal diatribes. Or you can get the occaisional diatribe with some outstanding help for the low, low price of free.

I could, but that would be worse. Like I said, I don't doubt the expertise I get here, I was merely voicing an opinion to be heard and perhaps have folks work on some of their wording and assumptions when they answer questions. Is there nothing about the UT you would like to see changed?

>I guess my argument is like this: When I go to someone's house and they feed me for free, I don't bitch if I didn't get dessert. < bg >

Let's go further with that analogy...let's say you get invited over for a free dinner...and it turns out to be an Amway party...do you suck it up and smile and thank the host graciously for all they have done (and all the crap they tried to sell you)? After all, it was free! If such a thing wouldn't bother you, then great -- we have different personalities when it comes to things like this I guess.

I know the UT is free, and as I have stated, I appreciate it and I do thank anyone who has ever posted a response to my message. I was merely pointing out something that bothers me, and it meshed perfectly with a point that Mister Meester was making.

Regards,
JoeK