I couldn't find anything like this..

I had the opposite - some of the Columns don't have Controlsources, that's part of the reason why I wanted to remove them

i've found a workaround now, but I don't particularly like.

Thanks

Will

>Just to add to the rest of the thread - I've had a similar behavior, for a different reason (had a controlsource for columns, but a blank source for the grid), and I've had a columncount of 0 but the debugger stil showed the columns as being there - but the column objects were not proper, several things were missing. Now that I've fixed the initial problem, I don't have this example anymore, but it only takes a few minutes in the debugger to see what are these phantom columns missing - maybe they have no header, no controlsource or whatever, you'll see.