Bob, the trick is the learn the framework, rather than fight it. In this case, the easy way would be to create a 1:M form, and then position it off the main foxpro window, and have at it programmatically. Everything you want to do is available in the framework, e.g., the child_new method which is particular to form_toolbar_onetomany. There are other ways as well -- I've got a button class which hooks to the many of a 1:M and uses the VPM mover form to add/delete/rearrange records The main thing to remember is that the code for handling all the things you don't want to handle is in the form, for the most part.. The class browser is your friend. <s> Also, get to know the postadd, presave, and postsave methods. Hank On Wednesday, September 17, 1997 10:08 PM, Universal Thread Visual FoxPro > >How can I add multiple records to child tables under VPM watchful eye. I >want the PK generation and record locking support but not require input >from the user. This application is a port from my FPDOS medical app and I >need to keep the same data structures. (Well, close anyway) > >If I spend more time working AROUND the framework to accomplished the same >job then I'm losing ground. > >The users don't know grids and records from refrigerators so I need hide >all details with simple forms and maybe a Listbox or two.