John,

You should be able to set Titlebar = 0 in the load which will occur before any of the form controls instantiate and position themselves.

> thanks for the replies. At least I know it's not me. I set the width in the form load event so that some other stuff in the form that is set to auto center like menu containers and such are in the proper postion. If you do it in the init they are already in the wrong place.