>>Craig,
>>
>>SNIP
>>>
>>>The product was produced and released by MS Press, not the Fox team, so any marketing effort, or lack of it, rests with a different group.
>>
>>Geez, it *is* hard to get something positive going with you on this subject...
>>
>>First you cavalierly dismiss a suggestion for educational material by saying that they've tried that and it failed, using the "Mastering..." product to prove the point.
>
>I don't remember what they did from a marketing effort. I have no contacts at MSPress. When I get time tonight, I can pull out back issues of FPA to see what is there. I paid attention to actual VFP6 marketing because this same discussion was going on when VFP6 was released. No such discussion happened for Mastering.
>
>>
>>Now you say they may not have marketed it (you don't know), they didn't check with buyers to get any feedback (you don't know) and that it was MS Press and not the VFP team who did the whole thing so it is MS Press' "fault".
>>
>>Understand this: NO ONE IN THIS THREAD (that I've seen at least) thinks it is the VFP Team's "job" to do the marketing for VFP. All acknowledge the VFP Team's dedication to the cause of making VFP the best possible product that it can be.
>
>Robert's job is marketing and interfacing with the user community. Everyone else on the Fox team has the responsibility of making VFP the best possibile product. Robert hasn't said anything in this thread.
>

Well Robert's job is somewhat a mystery to many of us. He was last titled something along the lines of 'Product Development Manager for VS' and prior as directly related to VB in some capacity.
He does not seem to be a MEMBER of the VFP Team and seems not to have been one for some time. I acknowledge that he shows up at DevCon and such but guess that it is simply because the VFP community "knows" him and his passion for VFP and MS lets him appear for its own reasons.

>>
>>You seem to have real trouble understanding this, Craig. Wanting something out of MS (marketing-wise) does NOT (repeat: NOT) imply crapping on the VFP Team.
>>
>>So there is absolutely no need for you to continually "defend" the VFP Team in this thread because it is NOT the VFP Team that is being hounded here.
>
>People are complaining about a lack of VFP marketing. If they aren't directing their comments to the fox team, who exactly is everyone directing their comments to?

MICROSOFT MARKETING. MICROSOFT MARKETING. MICROSOFT MARKETING.
MICROSOFT TRAINING. MICROSOFT TRAINING. MICROSOFT TRAINING.
MICROSOFT INTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS. MICROSOFT INTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS.
- anyone in MS excluding the VFP Team. And if you come back with something along the lines that it is each team's responsibility to 'market' their own product then the VFP TEam obviously needs to hire a competent marketer.

*IF* (repeat: IF) it truly is still Mr. Green's job to market VFP then let me state categorically that he, possibly guided by the GURU collection deemed (erroneously) to speak for the community, has FAILED MISERABLY AT THE TASK.

He has heard these complaints for at least 5 years now and NOTHING HAS CHANGED. MS folks still don't even know that VFP is in their repertoire. Gartner still has VFP on its death list (I take it).

JimN