>Allan,
>
>>>
>>>No doubt that there should be some marketing efforts. Let's see what the folks at MSFT do in the next month or so. IOW, let's at least give them a chance to show us what they think is best before we start criticizing them. That's what has been bothering me - a sort of pre-emptive panic. <g>
>>
>>I made a few comments in this thread last week and I haven't noticed any 'panic' in any of what I've read - just a sense of disappointment (and perhaps a bit of anger) that VFP gets little or no respect - largely because it is virtually ignored by the MS marketing machine. I'll be the first one the tip my hat to MS if they made a sincere effort to market 7.0 - I just don't have any confidence that it will happen.
>>
>>Have a look at the VFP home page http://msdn.microsoft.com/vfoxpro/default.asp - you 'll see an advertisement to attend Tech-Ed 2001 and get .Net Beta 2 - what an incredible offer! No mention, at least on the VFP home page - of the soon to be released VFP 7. Need any more be said?
>
>Well, look..
>
>Here's how I see this.
>
>1) The product will continue.
>
>2) The product will not continue.
>
>With or without the marketing.
>
>I dare say that the folks at Microsoft knows our thoughts and feelings here, don't you think? ANd, just to make sure you know, I'd like to see more monies spent on real marketing. <g>
>
>Now, do you see any other choices? If you do, I'd very much like to know what they are.
>
>Ok.. If you can accept that then the next question that (in both cases) I'd like to have you answer if you dould is this:
>
>What are you going to do to respond to this?
>
>All I'm really interested in is the simple answer to that question. I'd like to know.
>
>Not to pick on you but here's what I'm seeing. I see a few folks, who ostensibly are currently making a pretty good living with FoxPro. I see these same folks concerned enough about what they perceive as a fading future for FoxPro so staing here on the UT. I see them persistently and consistently responding to folks like myself, who believe other than they do, responding with their perception that VFP's future is fading.
>
>I can accept that they think this way but what I do not understand (and why I'm curious about your answer) is why in the world are they doing this?
>
>I have a couple possible answers which I'm trying to determine if they are reasonable or realistic. If I thought VFP was fading the very first thing I'd do is just go learn the product I had determined was going to succeed FoxPro, not tell everyone else. That would take away my competitive advantage by giving away my advantage, right?
>
>So.. What's the rationale for spending so much bandwith trying to convince people of their position as opposed to just acting on it?
>
>1) These folks need me to validate their view so they can feel better about themselves. Ain't going to happen as they should carry their own emotional water.
>
>2) They are being noble and are trying to help. Ok.. Some folks are motivated by noble reasons and I appreciate it. Now, having said their piece what are they doing about it? I'd like to know so I can do the same.
>
>I personally believe the product will continue. As such I plan to continue to develop in FoxPro.
>
>Is it any more difficult than that do you think?
>
>I'm really very much interested in your answer as I must confess to being a little confused as to why those who obviously feel so strongly just don't go do what they think is the next best step. Why spend so much time trying to convince me?? It's kind of like the athiest who seems to resent the fact that I believe in God and spends so much time and energy over it. Why bother? Do they really need to use me to make themselves feel that way about themselves or do they really not believe what they say they do and are just trying to convince me to validate their position?? If they really believe their position, just act on it.
>
>Makes no sense, if you see my point.

Doug,

Whether or not VFP "continues" is not a binary choice, it's a matter of degree. There's a quality of life issue here. Your suggestion that the continuation of a commercial product is independent of marketing is unconventional and unpersuasive, to say the least.

It puzzles me that you should ask Allan what he is going to do, as if you failed to realize how much he has already done. When Allan speaks, it warms the cockles of my heart. I can't tell you how great it is to hear those kinds of sincere affirmations coming from many others as well. The people who have taken the trouble of speaking out like Allan have done ten times as much as anyone had any reason to expect of them.

You, on the other hand, have done less than nothing by advocating a "call to inaction". You profess to be logical, and yet you produce nothing but a series of tired fallacies.

This isn't a battle between those who believe FoxPro is dying and those who don't. The question isn't whether the future is preordained, or that we should presume to know it. The question is simply whether we would consider asking Microsoft, openly, to do a better job of marketing VFP. Could we ask less of you? Does it make sense to ask anything less of Microsoft? Is this too much to ask?

Let's dispense with the "Microsoft knows what we want" argument once and for all. Yes, they know, but do they care enough to do anything about it. That's the issue. At some point, you've really got to wonder how they can resist, and it all comes down to numbers. The way I see it, there are a lot of FoxPro programmers who believe strongly enough in this to say so. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's not much harm in giving it a try. Yes, we'll continue striving to be excellent in everything we do, but the rest of us will also do this one thing more.

Does the risk of losing our "competitive advantage" by speaking out justify remaining silent? It's doubtful that we could, by any deliberate action, do more damage to VFP than Microsoft has already done by its inaction. And please, let's not go back to the irrelevant topic of "monies spent", because the most important things in this case, like their own newsletters, are free. This is not a question of marketing dollars, but of marketing will.

We're not wasting bandwidth by obliterating flawed arguments that serve only to discourage people from taking constructive action. The only action to be taken is persuasion. No one is required or expected to act out of nobility, because what we seek is in our mutual interest, and that makes perfect sense to me. If you have to ask "Why bother?", why spend so much time telling us why you choose not to bother?

Mike