Jim,

>Doug,
>
>I don't see the connection between wholesale prices/retail prices and a SHORTAGE. I see the pricing as cause for the bankruptcy crisis but definitively not the cause of any "shortage" crisis.

I understand that you don't see this connection. There was no economic incentive for the producers to create the additional supply as a direct result of the over-regulation and poor business climate created primarily as a result of politics.

>
>In any case, I don't take kindly to being branded a socialist.

Well, are you? If you are what's wrong with stating a fact? If you are not, then you've nothing to be concerned about I suppose. Socialism is IMO (remember - I still have the right to my opionion, no matter how odious you think it is) evil in that it hurts people tremendously.

>It is particularly odd to hear it coming from such a (self-proclaimed) devout Christian. I had this odd notion that Christianity frowned on calling people names of any kind.

Well, I guess you don't understand Christianity then. I am no better whatsoever in a moral sense than anyone else. That in no way precludes me from speaking the truth. Socialism is an economic failure. Always has been, always will be. That's the truth.

>You should probably consider moving to Northern Ireland. They seem to like that kind of thing there.

Nahh.. I'll just stand up to the silliness here. <g> Socialism is the philsophy that needs to go away...


>
>Finally, at one time every country, including the great U S of A, had basically free-wheeling wild-west style economies. The people in all of those countries saw fit to have their elected representatives impose laws to put some order and sanity into their economies. There are still countries today where economies are out of control and their people are crying for the same kinds of laws to be imposed to help them.

Sure, and it was James Madison (if my memory hasn't totally failed <g>) who remarked that when the citizens in America discovered that they could vote themselves money that the republic was essentially ended. One of the other component that we had here in America was the commonly held moral beliefs that had their source in the Historic Christian belief system. Not that everyone believed them but most people accepted these basic beliefs as a matter of course. Don't lie, steal, murder, etc.. Most folks haven't done the studies to the point that they realize the connection but if you're interested I'll be happy to provide the references. Start with the writings of the late Dr. Francis Schaeffer.

>
>None of us were even aware of it at the time, but even the great Microsoft has been found guilty of gouging virtually every one of us. I guess the law was an ass there too. And I guess the market's eyes were enough.

No.. The law has not at all exonerated Microsoft. It threw out the judgement of an obviously biased judge but I dare say that MSFT is not out of harm's way at this juncture. IOW, the law worked from where I sit. Maybe not as fast as we might have all wanted. You're not suggesting that they're off the hook are you?

The law BTW is not the market. I'd think a better comparison would be Linux in the server market. Looks quite healthy from here..

>
>Today your MBAs spend their time looking for loopholes in laws and exploiting things until the law catches up. It's all "legal" because today "the spirit of the law" doesn't matter any more, only the technicality of the law.

Well, I've no argument with you here Jim. I fully believe that the spirit of the law should 'trump' the legalese of the law. I think our (America) culture has just about poisoned itself to the point of death with this kind of thinking.

>
>What would you say if one of your devout Christian friends had an affair with someone but argued that he was not breaking any commandment because it says "thy neighbour's wife" and the lady in question was NOT his neighbours wife but someone who lived across town???

Wouldn't change the fact that they had committed adultery or fornication. Sadly, I've had to deal with this issue at times over the years. The Greek word used is 'pornea' (poor-nee-ah) and it covers all illicit sexual activity. I doubt that God is very impressed with man's futile attempts at redefining truth. <g> My 'friend' would need to have a genuine remorse for sure but God's forgiveness is immediate and complete.


>
>Lastly, your " Duh.. < g > ", amounting to calling me "stupid" but with a grin to whitewash it doesn't wash.
>

Well, I apologize for not taking you as seriously as you have taken yourself here. I do stupid things all the time Jim and maybe this is one of them. Look, we all have ideas about life, economics, politics, faith, etc and if we're going to be all puckered up over it then the discussions which seem to me to require different opinions aren't going to work, are they? I guess I need to be more careful about hurting your feelings in the future. Sorry about that.


>snip<