Alex,

Interesting. I wasn't aware that they celibrated July 5.

One big mistake I see the US making, with respect to your suggestion that the latin american countries be more closely associated with Spain (which I do not disagree with), is the silly notion that democracy is easily exported. I do not think it is. First of all, democracy is not what the US is all about. Secondly, the early American culture was (despite the historical revisionist's attempts) deeply rooted in the Historic Christian belief system and the Bible. The sociological assumptions & presumptions that the vast majority of citizens ordered their day-to-day behavior under was derived from the Judeo-Christian thought process. That's why we have a Republic. Christianity teaches that all men are sinners and will fail. As such they need to have their powers checked and balanced. Pretty straightforward actually.

But, hugely brilliant as no country had ever (to my knowledge) based its entire public structure upon the notion that man was not perfectable. The French revolution was based on the notion that man was perfectable - but if you didn't demonstrate the behavior that 'society' (read - those currently in power) you literally lost your head. This is the folly of all governments based upon this notion. Socialism and communism share this trait and the government sees itself as the 'perfector' and when its citizens somehow do not measure up they are, well, dealt with in unpleasant ways. It's also the philosophical base for the current intrusiveness of some of our governmental behaviors. They all will eventually fail as they deteriorate over time - as we are now doing in direct proportion to the centralization of our governmental processes.

The American style of government is pretty much singularly unique and IMO almost impossible to export to any group. However, when trying to export this system of a Republic (under the guise of a democracy I suppose) it's kind of like taking a mobile home and by virtue of dumping it off its carrying trailer in a field that it is a house. Without a proper foundation, plumbing, electrical etc it's not a house. It's a trailer dumped in a field. <g> IOW, it won't work well, if at all. That's why, IMO, 'democracy' will never work in Russia until and unless they have a huge spiritual awakening that inculcates the core values of Christianity into their society. Then and only then will the laws against theft, fraud, extortion, etc have any meaning because from within their own hearts they will not want to steal. Sadly, I don't see that happening but I'd love nothing more than to be wrong in this instance.

It's also quite arrogant and presumptious IMO as well..... I'd think that latin american countries would more closely associate with Spain & Portugal. It just makes sense as that is their history..

However, a trading 'block' comprised of North & South America is very appealing to me and I think it makes a lot of sense economically.



>Hi Doug,
>
>Interestingly, Venezuelans celebrate independence on July 5. I tend to believe that this is related to the fact that Bolivar and Washington were pals.
>
>On hindsight, however, most latin-american countries would probably be better off at this point as colonies of Spain - being part of the European community sure beats the current state of affairs, even as second class citizens, which is what probably would have happened if not for Bolivar and Co. (and that was actually what led to the independence movement in the US). But then, at the time, who would've thought that such high ideals would lead to disaster...
>
>Feliz 5 de Julio retrasado, Andrews!
>
>Alex
>
>
>>Andrews,
>>
>>
>>>Good moorning.
>>>I in this opportunity I not going to make a consultation or question I only desire to congratulate deeply to all the friends American People in the day of their independence.
>>>From here Venezuela I desire them that they pass a happy day.
>>>Thousand congratulations.:-)
>>
>>
>>What a nice message!
>>
>>As an American I find that all too often we Americans have taken the ideas of freedom and liberty and turned them into anarchy and liscentiousness. However, the original notion that was the wellspring from which freedom and liberty came from was the very simple idea that each human being intrinsically had 'worth' or 'value'. This idea, of course, is not one that is somehow owned or controlled by America. It is not based upon our wealth - as a matter of fact our real wealth is based upon this notion "That all men are created equal." That in the eyes of God all men intrinsically had worth. From this has come institutions such as those of higher education, hospitals, charities of all sorts, shapes and sizes. From this comes organizations like the Red Cross and Red Crescent - which are based upon the notion that each man, woman and child has value and therefore it is worth the time, effort and often danger to rush to the aid of one's fellow man. He may have a different
>faith,
>>or a different language but God has given to each and every one the value that others recognize.
>>
>>No.. America doesn't somehow 'own' freedom. We are free because at a certain point in our history all the proper circumstances came together where enlightened men consciously recognized their dependence upon God and their intrinsic worth and the resulting responsibility to promote these notions and to be willing to die for them - asd they were/are eternal truths. The American Revolution really was one of the only true revoloutions this world has ever seen. Most other so-called revolutions simply replace one dictator with another - all operating under the notion that each man's worth or value was somehow given by the government. Each government of man seems to reflect that it itself gives this value - and all too often it believes it can take it away just as easily. In America wer are supposed to understand that these rights are not the governlemt's to give or take. They are intrinsic to each individual.
>>
>>Sadly many here have forgotten these simple truths as I mentioned above and have traded liberty for anarchy and freedom for liscentiousness.
>>
>>The 'freedom' America offers is not America's to offer, other than leading by example perhaps. We just happened to have the grace and good fortune to recognize these truths and write them down.
>>
>>They are for all mankind - or should be anyway.
>>
>>
>>.