Gerry,

>>>I'll take it on faith and continue to work with those who feel the same way, imperfect though we may be.
>>
>>Interesting.. Ed Leafe (an avowed athiest whom I greatly admire) and I (what was that, oh yeah.. "Bible thumping maniac" <g>) often have butted heads over this and both he and I usually arrive at the point where he admits his position is taken on faith, as is mine of course. I think the 'trick' to these kinds of issues is to never allow one's self to take or use a position (take your pick) as an excuse for avoiding thinking and reasoning.
>
>The sun rose today. "PROVE IT" !

Exactly!

The scientific method only works in a system enclosed by man's mind, eh?

>
>I wasn't going to get into a debate over my perceptions and my reality, and any system I may have used as an illustration probably would not have been "complex enough".
>
>Anyway, I will make no claim as to who or what did or did not initiate the Big Bang, Genesis, or whatever you choose to call it. Though I do believe there was a "beginning". Now, whether or not it's oscillating ...
>
>:)

Well, as Alex suggested we need to have these kinds of discussions where Michel would prefer we do - Chatter. *s*