Renoir,

>>>Promise of hell does sound like showing respect :)
>
>>Respecting your choice does. The whole point is that no one HAS to go there. Only those who refuse God's love and forgiveness. Don't you reserve for yourself the right to associate with those whom you choose? Why would anyone want to deny God that same right?
>
>Doug,
>
>I almost hate to get involved in this, but... I was brought up Christian and one of the things I remember most was the fear of Hell. Not the love. Not the forgiveness. Those were mentioned, but the big thing that kept me going to church was the fire and brimstone. I always resented that as an adult and felt it was simply manipulation and threats to ensure you followed the doctrine because they just didn't have enough faith in the kinder, gentler side of God. Have been agnostic for a long time now. I'm not a kid anymore, but when I'm on my deathbed, or just really old, I'm sure that the reason I'll be praying will be to stay out of Hell. As an aside, but somewhat related - early last week I lived in a grey area regarding crime and punishment, but this week, after personal loss, I don't have much to give and simply want those responsible erradicated.
>
>Renoir

I understand how this could cause you considerable misgivings.

If I may..

People have, by and large, very uninformed knowledge of what the Bible says about God and these issues. Most of the time when I respond to issues like this I am dealing with someone who is, on their side, with second or third-hand knowledge. I think your instincts are accurate here though. I have seen this manipulation as well and it really can fall short of a complete 'picture' if not joined to the issue of God's love.

However, Jesus, more than anyone else, warned of Hell. As such I think it's an important issue to understand and learn.

The fundamental message of the Good News of the New Testament is the demonstration of God's love. As a matter of fact Paul, in the letter to the Romans says in 2:4 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"

IOW, it is the recognition of our total unworthiness and the fact that God loves us anyway that leads us to turn.

Still, I have no desire whatsoever to see anyone, even these terrorists (they are till somewhere in this conversation aren't they? <g>) to have that fate. God, in Ezekial (33:11) states "Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" So apparently God Himself takes no pleasure in this.

Still, He is holy and holiness cannot abide sin. Those who refuse free forgiveness for their sin and cling to it rather than the free gift of total forgiveness have themselves chosen their fate. No one will ever be able to say that God was unfair.