>Doug,
>
>I don't hang out in the chatter section much and had stayed out of this topic altogether, but I saw your reply to Michelle and thought I throw in my two cents on the Biblical story.
>
>The "turn the other cheek" "give up your robe" and "walk the second mile" teachings are misunderstood today because we don't understand the culture and laws of Jesus' time.
>
>While there have been many good and worthwhile sermons and many needed lessons about trusting God based on these teachings, Jesus was not telling his followers not stand up for themselves like many people think. He was telling them how to turn the tables on the oppressor.
>
>1. "Turning the other cheek" is hardest to describe, but because of the laws and culture it forces the person hitting you to either strike with his other hand or back-hand you, both of which were not acceptable. It made the person hitting you look bad if he continues.
>
>2. "Give up your robe" Jewish law said you could take the possesions of someone in your debt, but not to the point of endangering him. Some unscrupulous landowners would come out and take the coats of workers who owed them money, and them ceremoniously return them in the evening when it got cold to show their piety and how they followed the law. Then they would take the coats away again in the morning to keep the laborer in his place. If the worker were to say "You know, I owe you more than the value of my coat" and take off his other garments in front of the man, then the man would be unclean for having seen the worker naked and would have to go through a ritual cleansing. The worker had no right to fight the man, but could still turn the tables.
>
>3. "Walk the second mile" As you said, Roman law held that a soldier could force a non Roman citizen to carry his equipment - but only for one mile. This was to show how good and fair Rome was, when actually they had conquered the country. Walking the second mile puts the soldier on the defensive knowing he could get in trouble for this infraction of Roamn policy." This one's my favorite, because I can just see the soldier saying "No.. wait.. you don't have to keep going..." while the Jewish peasant just keeps on walking Once again, it's not dramatic, but power is shifted from the oppressor to the oppressed.
>
>Walter Wink wrote an excellent book "Transforming Bible Study" than includes a lot of history and information on this passage.
>
>I can't think of any time Jesus suggested violence as an answer, but neither did He want His followers to let people walk over them.
>
>A final thought. Wouldn't it be something if we could think of a way to "wage peace" to win this war against terrorism. Can we? I don't know. Do we let the terrorists get away with what they did? No!! Do we sit back and wait for them do more evil? Absolutely not!!! We need to stop this now. But as you said, we are responsible to God for our actions. It's true, you can find support for violence against bad people in Old Testament scripture, but I wonder if God would be happier with us if we found a way to get retribution and justice without causing bloodshed and violence ourselves.
>
>As I said, I don't know how to do this. We certainly need to defend ourselves and I want to see bin Laden suffer the same fate as the people he's had killed as much as anyone does. But, you know, we've got a lot of smart people in our country and what if we could figure it out...

Excellent summary of 1st century culture!

In the Gospels Jesus told Peter, "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." In in Paul's writings he told the Corinthians that, paraphrasing, "the powers that be are ordained by God and they do not bear the sword in vain", refering to the roll of Govenment to enforce the laws and protect its citizens. On one hand Jesus is saying that individuals, acting on their own volition, should not resort to violence to solve their problems. On the other hand, a person my be an 'ordained' officer of the law with the power to exercise captital punishment. A breakdown in behavior in either mode (civilians taking the law into their own hands, or govenrment failing to protect its citizens) would spell the end of civil society. Revenge following revenge has become a way of life in several countries. It is also interesting to locate a Quran browser on the internet and search for the verses that contain the word 'fight', then compare them with a similar search in the New Testament.