>>Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not neither?
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>?????
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>How could you do that? <g> A part of teaching contains instruction on interaction. For example, Karol occassionally has a child (2nd grade) that will steal from her or another child. What should dhe do? (I'd actually be very interested in your answer)

I didn't say that we shouldn't teach kids not to steal. I said that we didn't have to post either the 10 Commandments or a sign that says that stealing, etc. is okay.

As a society, we have a number of common premises, some of which do originate from religious thinking, but others of which are part of our common American culture. I have no problem with a poster/bulletin board that lists the rules we, as a society, live by. My objection is to posting only the religious portion and to including the part that isn't part of our overall societal agreement. You don't have to accept "I am the Lord, your God" to be a good American, but you have to accept "Do not steal."

>>FWIW, Rabbi Akiba (one of the great Jewish sages) was asked to explain the Torah while standing on one foot. He said, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."
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>I'd tend to agree but don't quite get the "one foot" part unless he had my disease and like to talk too much. <g>

No, it's part of a larger story. Here's a slightly longer version that I found online:

The Talmud tells that a gentile came to Shammai saying that he would convert to Judaism if Shammai could teach him the whole Torah in the time that he could stand on one foot. Shammai drove him away with a builder's measuring stick! Hillel, on the other hand, converted the gentile by telling him, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."

Oh, and I see that I misattributed it to Rabbi Akiba, when it was actually Hillel. Oops.

>I find that interesting in that the version given by Jesus is more pro-active. IOW, we need to actively seek to do goof to those around us, not just avoid doing ill.

Interesting. I see it the other way round. The Christian version to me seems to be about avoiding seeking rewards ("Do unto others as you would have others do unto you") - if you treat others well, you'll be treated well. The Jewish version is not doing bad and, perhaps, avoiding bad reactions.

>>What's everyone so afraid of?
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>>I'm afraid that you'll make my kids and other kids like them feel like second-class citizens in school.
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>I notice you removed a word... Why? Cluck cluck cluck... <g>

I managed to make the whole phrase actually <g>.

>If you are afraid that by teaching your child not to steal and also to demonstrate the cultural origin of that teaching I guess you're pretty much a basket case to begin with. <g> Get over it and get on with life is how I'd respond. To go through life operating from a position of fear is not natural nor right IMO. But to consciously ignore the plain facts in order to avoid offending the hyper-sensitive gets you nothing except the elevation of moral nothingness.

You're totally missing the point (again). When one religion is observed in school, the message to the other students is that they are not as important as the observers of that religion. Our founding fathers didn't want that to be the case on a national basis - they specifically said that we would not have a state religion and, therefore, at least on a religious basis, no one would be a second-class citizen.

Tamar