Jay,

Thanks for your insights on this topic. As for supporting VFP by thinking globally, acting locally - I say 'Right on!'

Have a great weekend!
Malcolm


>Malcolm --
>
> Your points about developers enjoying talking about their apps is right on. We made a point at our SIG to have regular demos of locally grown applications. Even folks who didn't feel like they could make a presentation did enjoy sharing their work with others in the group. It was amazing, and continues to be, what is possible to do with VFP.
>
> One of the phrases that keeps coming back to me is "think globally, act locally." If we put some of these ideas into action where we are, who knows what may come of it?
>
> Have a great weekend!
>
>
> Jay
>
>>Hi Jay,
>>
>>Your statement about application demos showing the synthesis of many ideas is right on!!!
>>
>>OK, even without a competition it would be great to have a big room for people that wanted to demo their software and people that wanted to see what other people were doing. Software developers like (love) to talk about their applications more than just about anything, so just having a chance to demo one's application(s) might be reward enough in-and-of itself. Sometimes demoing an application to another developer (especially a developer outside our little customer centric worlds) can spawn a whole list of other ideas. (Idea: encourage gawkers to anonomously submit constructive criticsm to insure that demostraters benefit from both praise and constructive criticism) Plus, as Terry mentioned there's also the added benefit of professional exposure for those in the community that might not have the opportunity or skill set for presenting a formal session to a large group of people. So its not the just the gawkers that get to benefit in such a scenario.
>>
>>Keeping the demo room open late - very late - would give people looking for something to do an alternative venue to the local bars. Better yet, having a cash bar available would be the best of all worlds<g>!
>
>Hey, a round on the house!
>
>>
>>Personally, I think many people might benefit just as much from attending a full day of well prepared demos (where one could walk around and sample the goods) as they would from attending a full day's worth of formal sessions. Perhaps this is a concept that some of the VFP user groups might want to pilot??? (I'm going to suggest such a 'demo day' to the newly launched Central NJ MS Developers group)
>>
>>In closing, I strongly agree with your comments about the value of having an event that allowed developers to demo their apps and see the apps of others demoed - independently of whether or not any awards were being assigned.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Malcolm
>>
>>PS: I fully appreciate why Ken Levy and Advisor don't want to get involved in sponsoring a competition. If I were in their shoes, I too would want to avoid the pain-in-the-ass hassles and incessant whining that is always associated with these activities! However, just because these players don't want to get involved, doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to skin this type of Fox!
>>
>>
>>
>>>Malcolm,
>>>
>>> I heartily agree about the value of learning from other applications. So much of DevCon is analytic -- showing how the small pieces work. But, when you see a system, you see the synthesis of many ideas -- data design and application logic -- which conferences are rich in, but also those that I think are underemphasized such as effective user interfaces, etc.
>>>
>>> I talked with Advisor Pubs about this at this year's DevCon. Ken Levy also addressed that issue in his session with user groups. It seems clear that there is a desire to steer clear of anything sounding like a competition. I don't have the impression that that will change.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I think it's really worthwhile to pursue the goals you have in a somewhat different way.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>>Terry,
>>>>
>>>>PMFJI, but I enthusiastically support your idea of someone resurrecting The VFP Excellence Awards (a competition of VFP solutions in various categories)
>>>>
>>>>This type of activity helps promote VFP by producing a public inventory of success stories, motivates developers to produce great software, and provides a showcase of examples for the rest of the community to learn from. As nerdy as it sounds, I enjoy studying other software applications, 'borrowing' the good stuff, and taking notes to make sure I'm not guilty of the stuff that I don't like. I'm sure this is a common practice across our community.
>>>>
>>>>Like you, I'm disappointed that our community has become so 'politically correct' that we are afraid to honestly appraise the works of others. The logic that all applications are equal (a tie) rewards and encourages mediocry vs. excellence.
>>>>
>>>>Given the fact that no judging system is ever 'fair'<g>, I'm wondering if we, as a community, possibly with (or intentionally without?) some vendor sponsorship, can come up with a forum or organization that collects and categorizes applications and at some pre-agreed on time and place 'judges' these applications with the intent of assigning 1st, 2nd, 3rd place and honorable mention awards. Sure, the process won't be perfect. But I believe to not attempt such a task just because it can't be perfect is a bigger mistake.
>>>>
>>>>One idea might be to have a demo room setup at a Devcon or Whilfest event where people wanting to demo their apps could demo their applications using their own hardware (no cost except for demo space) Those unable to attend this type of show might have someone demo their app on their behalf. Or there might be a provision for a 'write-in' category for applications being judged that can't be demoed by the original software development team. The actual judging would by all event participants who decided to participate (a true jury of their peers). Each attendee would be given a ballot sheet (one per attendee) where they could assign 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree rankings within each category. Near the end of the event, the winners would be announced.
>>>>
>>>>Another idea might be to create an upload sight where every member of the UT could submit sample applications for review based on a set of pre-subscribed screen shots and explanations. Or demo versions of the apps themselves. (Or have these be separate categories) Like the above example, the judging would be done by a true jury of peers, i.e. each member of the UT would be allowed to vote for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd within each category via a web survey form that insured that each member only voted once.
>>>>
>>>>A final idea that might apply to any of the above scenarios would be to charge a small entry fee for each submitted application. This entry fee could be used to offset admin overhead of the sponsoring organization and/or it could be used for non-profit efforts to promote VFP in colleges or abroad by paying for VFP related books, magazines, or software.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Another 'bad ass' developer (Malcolm)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Two things I would like:
>>>>>1) A competition - cause I'd like to try and win one!
>>>>> Two Main categories would be nice:
>>>>> 1) Developers with commercial copyrights
>>>>> 2) Developers that write private copyrigts
>>>>>
>>>>>2) A Developers fair where we could see other developers interfaces. Compare design techniques - look to be hired - look for people to hire.
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect there a whole bunch of BADAS? developers out there. I'd like to see what they're up to. Gets some ideas share some ideas - ( a natural form of payment - i think!)
>>>>>
>>>>>It's almost like a culture where everyone prefers to tie, rather than win. We need some competition.
>>>>>TT
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Alex,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Something similar with our apps, would at least make the name foxpro familiar to users, and some users eventually become managers (if that's not the case already).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Think this is a great idea!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ALL my VFP apps have the Visual FoxPro logo and its name in the splash screen, along with other information. I've been using this practice for about the last 2-3 years. Of course it shows "Visual FoxPro Logo, Copyright© 1988-2001 Microsoft Corporation, All rights reserved". If you want a screen shot of it, I can send it to you by email, for you to see how it looks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fernando