Mike,

>>What's so bad about having a personal love-based relationship with the creator of the universe? I don't understand why people wouldn't line up around the block for this...
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>Nothings bad, if we knew he existed. There is no reason to accept his existence as truth. And if there was, I'm sure he'd rather have people living on his planet than spending their time kissing his ass. But thats just me.

Well, look.. I can give you all of the references and cite the statistics and so forth but I think before any of that happens you need to understand that you are not understanding the nature of God. Your statement about "kissing his ass" is why I say that. Please don't blame God for the ills of mankind that mankind has caused itself. IOW, man does these nasty things to other men, not God. Well, at least not the God of the Bible. There are other so-called 'gods' that are hateful and you can see that in the actions of those who follow them. It kind of depends on your definition of God.

Think about this a little, and I'm not directing this at you or anyone else here directly. If there is a god and we understand that as a part of the definition of the nature of god then one of the most common elements of his nature is the notion that he lives outside of space, matter and time. If this is so and he created all space, matter and time then it is more than a little presumptious and arrogant for mankind to deny his existence - simply because we do not comprehend it. As a matter of fact it is sort of axiomatic that we wouildn't be able to comprehend him if he were this way. IOW, how can the finite comprehend the infinite? BTw this is what the Historic Christian position asserts. That is, this god lives outsode of space, matter and time.

As an interesting aside time is actually a construct of matter and would not exist if matter did not exist. ie. it would be 'eternal' or simply exist in the constant, never-changing present, or eternity.

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>>I had an older brother who was a junkie and for all that I know somewhere around 1967 he had his brains blown out because he used the drugs he was supposed to sell rather than selling them.
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>I am very sorry to hear that, and I hope you don't take offense to this, but I think if drugs were never illegal, he would still be with you today.

Boy, I don't know Mike... I'd sure like to think so but Larry had a pretty destructive personality. And, no, of course there's no offense taken and thanks for your kind words.

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>>Actually, Mike, "eternal life" is NOT a quantity of life; it's a quality of life.
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>Interesting statement...

< g >

It is indeed. It's all about a relationship, not some artifical construct of man. ie. religion. Karl Marx was actually quite correct when he asserted that 'religion is the opiate of the people'. Too bad he missed the relationship angle..