Steve..

Exactly what has Ken done to uplift VFP's image in people's eyes? Seems to me that if VFP is still being omitted from lists, not much has changed. Whether Ken has been 5 months or 6 months on the jobis not the issue. The difference between 5 or 6 is not material. That said, since you have stated that Ken has "done more for VFP's profile and visibility than any other person at Microsoft", lets focus on that.

If you are going to counter with the Steve Ballmer Video, I will counter with "so what??". Steve IS the boss at MS. If he was really behind the product, nobody, and I mean nobody would defy that premise by omitting the product from advertisements, lists, etc. At best, that video was lip service to maintain the status quo.

The MSDN article? That was done and in the can before Ken got on the scene. Therefore, Ken cannot take credit for that.

The Lifetime Achievement Award? Quite possibily the most laughable thing I have ever seen. What was the criteria: to have sessions that encourage upgrades to VFP 7? Who was nominated? What was the voting process. I don't mean to disparage Whil here, but he would be way down on the list. For example, one of the reasons for the award was that he was an early adopter of GenscrnX. IMO, the person who actually invented that product should get it before the adopter - right??? I am put in the weird position of one one hand, bashing Ken and at the same time saying that HE - not the actually recipient of the award is more deserving. How about Tom Rettig, George Goley, Lisa Slater, Glen Hart, and yes, even you! It gets even stranger - I would nominate you for that award - our personal differences notwithstanding. I guess that is the difference with me - I have the capacity to be objective - to not drink the VFP Kool-Aid.

The MVP summit????? Trust me when I tell you that a more rosy picture of that event is being painted than actually reflects reality. The only people I saw uplifted with respect to VFP were the VFP MVP's themselves (not all of them mind you...).

As for the standard, on more than one occasion, Robert was heavily critized on this forum. The standard is simple - if you are the marketing guy and VFP gets shunned, you are going to hear about it. Nobody has taken Ken on here. That should change.

You started your response to me with "In my view...". Steve, I would suggest that you take time to see what the views are of the world at large. I submit they would be in conflict with "your view"...

So go ahead Steve, offer some objective evidence that Ken has really has "Done more for VFP's profile and visibility than any other person at Microsoft".