>>For every "industry expert" you can find, I can another to counter this - including myself.
>>
>>In the windows world, .NET is not facing an uphill battle...
>>
>>Having said that, in looking at the J2EE model, I don't a significant difference from what has been espoused for the past few years. i.e., nothing new.
>>
>>First and foremost - I am a windows developer - windows is my platform. How can my development efforts be more productive on the platform. I know this sounds like marketing speak - and FWIW, I suppose it is. But, it is also common sense.
>>
>>The bottom line is this: .NET is the platform for windows development. All the people here and the the people that primary use VB, VFP, etc are windows developers first and foremost. This is why .NET is the next logical step for VFP developers. VFP provides a way to participate in the platform, but in all material respects, VFP is largely on the outside looking in when it comes to .NET. When you are inside .NET, you get the full benefit of the franchise. This is why I want the OS and the application platform built by the same company. There are economies of scale that could not be realized otherwise. Yes, MS should provide access to third parties - but in no case should the two be split up. I am getting off track here a bit - but it does help to solidify my point of why .NET is the place to be.
>>
>>In sum - if the platform is Unix, Linux, or something else that is non-windows. In the windows world however, I will choose the platform optimized for that environment in the absense of a compelling reason to choose otherwise.
>
>John,
>
>I fully agree. I think it's a matter of what platform you develop for.
>
>I have a friend who works for a consulting firm (he is in sales) and is always harping on the fact that Java is the only serious development tool (specifically J2EE) and any developer who uses Windows development tools (I honestly don't think he could name one) is not going to make it in the enterprise space. He works in the healthcare division and his world is painted with J2EE. I disagree with his view. I think there will always be a place for Windows developers because it is so ubiqiutious on the desktop and network server (and now web servers).
>
>It's funny - now that I'm doing development with VB/ASP/SQL I find I am getting the same lack of respect among my peers as when I was a VFP developer (I still use VFP some). I was shocked to discover this but now I am not suprised. I guess getting respect from one's friends for what you do isn't all it's cracked up to be. I guess there are some significant areas where MS has fallen short for enterprise apps though in terms of security and scalability so it's no suprise that they're not respected in that development community.
>
>I hope to see these perceptions and the overall market's perceptions change as .NET matures so I will someday get the respect I deserve.
>
>-JT

Jeff;

I tend to get a great deal of respect! Is it because I am 6’ 7” and weigh 290, or because I have black belts in judo and karate? :)

I know what you mean as I live in Silicon Valley where “Java” headquarters was created and in place. As I am employed and using Microsoft tools (except VFP, which I use at home for clients) and have not been outside looking for a job in almost two years, I am not sure what to expect. I have seen a lot of the Java guys looking for jobs and the climate in general is not too good.

I have belonged to the Java users group (the original) since the first meeting. They have come a long way and yet I remain in the Microsoft camp. The type of things people do with Java around here do not interest me. Take the .COM craze – I told everyone they were nuts. I am perhaps too conservative but I do think a company should have a business plan and many .COM’ers did not understand that. They thought it was a game! Stay up 16 hours a day, seven days a week and sleep on the floor and be a millionaire in six months. "We have to be first to market"! With what? Doggie blankets or pooper scoopers for mice?

How many times did my Java friends cry, “We are going public”! Pre IPO – remember that term? Sure! A friend of mine has had three Java jobs in the last year. Each company went belly up. Perhaps the lack of planning and business sense is part of the problem with many of these Java ventures. Some people do things just to be different and couple this with a hatred of Microsoft, you have an interesting combination.


When the smoke clears we may know more about what the true programming climate is all about. I somehow feel that Microsoft will have a large part of the pie and cannot complain about that. Whatever it takes to survive I will do as this is my nature. As a Viet Nam veteran I can say I know something about survival.

Tom