>Except that he already HAD HIS labour pool sitting on their hands waiting for the mill to be rebuilt. So sure, labour availability factored into the decision, no doubt, but you simply refuse to acknowledge that it can be good to consider the well-being of your people and your town and your country as factors, attributing it in any way you can possibly link it to free trade and only free trade!

I completely agree that it can be good to consider the well-being of your town when making business decisions. He had the right to move his plant overseas, the same as he had the right to keep it in the states. Either way, if he patents the Polartec process, his company thrives, and his employees have much better job security. But he didn't. Whose fault is that?

>It is my belief that this is another one of those crocks aimed squarely at justifying free trade AND MOVING SHOPS.
>When I can go get labour at $3.00 per DAY then ANY union wage is going to be too high! So, as the business in question, I am going to say that union demands are forcing me to relocate the shop. But the fact of the matter is that at $3.00 per day I am GOING TO MOVE THAT SHOP ANYWAY! It helps to profer an excuse that blames "those greedy workers" - the same workers who were just fine, thank you, while I was exploiting them when their exploitation was best available. And who do you think agreed to pay theose excessive union wages all along???? And how will you feel when some shop in India or Iran or the Phillipines or Russia or Bulgaria or wherever makes YOUR hourly rate look too high and puts you oiut of work????

It is not simply $3.00 vs. $20.00 a day. Most articles I have read have indicated that the US worker is the most productive worker in the world. But some are pricing themselves out of the market. I know that here in Louisville the union kept pushing GE and kept pushing. GE said it may move the production to Mexico. The union kept pushing. And GE said fine, we're moving. The wage GE was willing to pay American workers was much, much higher than the wage they were going to pay the Mexican workers, but it wasn't enough for the union.

>And get serious about union wages beating a Ph.D.'s wage. You might find the isolated case, where some Ph.D. has medical conditions or is simply a smart fewllow but a lousy worker, but come on!!! It's real easy to swallow company propaganda. See it for what it is!

You could be right. How about a teacher with a Masters? Think they make more than a lot of the plant workers? Let's see: 5 years of school, and they still make less. How about nurses? My sister is a nurse: 4 years of school. Still makes less than a lot of the union workers at GE. The union negotiated great salaries when things were in their favor. Now they are not.

>>And so they should be criticized for that?!?!?!? Gimme a break! I'm sure you'd refuse outright someone coming along and telling you that they were going to increase your wage. And since when is it mandatory to have a college degree to make a great living! Get real. These are the mumblings of an irrational mind.

No, not criticized. I am a firm believer that people should choose their own lives. They have chosen not to get an education. That was there choice. And I have no problem with that. Too each his own. But you can't turn around and complain about not having a great job when every teacher, guidance counselor, etc. told you to get an education. I have no problem with people who don't go to college. I do have a problem with people who don't go to college and then complain about not being given a great job with great pay. Who ever said that was guaranteed to anyone?

If someone tells me that if I want a good job with good pay, I should get an education, and I choose not to, whose fault is it when I don't get a good job with good pay?

>There you are, stuck again on one lousy decision making up his WHOLE character. GE did say good riddance when it went to Mexico and left those excessively-demanding union folks in your area hung out to dry. You buy their line. I'd like to saee you in the same position and then see your reaction. And much as I hope you never do, I say there's a very good chance, high even, that you will. Then we'll see how one can make a decent living delivering pizzas.

The union did it to themselves. They had great salaries and benefits for a long time. GE was still willing to pay them more than the Mexican workers. It wasn't enough for the union, so GE did what it said it was going to do.

If I am negotiating with a client who says they are going to hire some programmers from India because my price is too high, then I don't come down, and the client ends up hiring the programmers from India, who is to blame?

>Yep. You won't believe 60 Minutes at all but you'll swallow GE's line that excessive union demands forced closure of a viable and working concern. Not so sure who has trouble with whole storys here.

I swallowed our local paper, the Courier-Journal's, view. And it leans very left. I do know for a fact that they were willing to pay the American workers more than the Mexican workers. GE was losing $30 on every refrigerator it made. So, what is your solution? Continue to lose money?

>Even they, I hear, are coming under the screw of ONLY profits, as I understand it. They sold out a while back, with provisions that certain of their cultural things be continued. I understand that pressure is building already. Just like all those "mergers" where they used to say, on the day of the takeover, 'no job is in jeopardy. At this ime we intend to find ways to keep them all." Weeks later people have been ejected in huge numbers.

Anyone who believes that their job is secure is ducking their head into the sand. Job security is a joke. The only solution is to pay attention to the market, develop your skills, and make yourself attractive to employers. Or, go into business for yourself. Again, there are few guarantees in life. And having a great job with great pay is not one of them.

>You really do have a distaste for unions, don't you!?!?! You do remember, of course, that there was/is a union at the mill in question and that there has never been a job action at the plant!

I think unions negotiate just like big, bad companies do. When they push too hard and overstep themselves, they pay for it. Just the say as companies who push unions too far, and who lose millions of dollars when the union strikes. In the end, like any negotiation, you better have an accurate assessment of your abilities.

>No, I'm afraid that you have been quite convinced by all of the free trade propaganda. It's got you despising unions generally and, far more subtly and probably unrealized by you, also hurting your very own country that has nurtured you and your parents and their parents... I'll keep working to help you to see the light.

I don't despise unions. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for groups who try to overstate their position, then whine when the other side calls their bluff.