Jim,

>Doug,
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>>We (the US) do not always 'follow' international law. I suppose Mike that this is an issue whether or not nations should be soverign or not. I think they have this right.
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>Well isn't that convenient.

Convenience is exactly what it is.

> To the extent that a country participates in the development of some specific international law, all the while, of course signalling their intent to adopt/comply with that law, then they should damned well follow that law once they adopt it.

Uh huh.. Tell that to every nation that does this. I agree with you Jim that if a nation signs a treaty they should keep it but to use that as an excuse to intellectually avoid recognizing what happens in the real world is IMO a case of fantasy overcoming reality. Remember Prime Minister MacNamillen (think that's the right name & spelling) of Great Britain proclaiming "peace in our time" and waving the signed treaty he secured from Hitler? Good example of what I'm describing. It also happens at the level of the young boy asking, for the first time, to be the boyfriend of a girl. SOmetimes that is also fantasy overcoming reality. Humans do this but when it comes to the relationship of nations with each other we shouldn't.

Goodnes gracious.. If people kept their word we wouldn't need contracts, laws and jails. The existence of contracts, laws and jails is primae facia evidence that man's nature is corrupt and he (man) lies with great ease.

While I agree with you in principle I think you've allowed your principles to cloud reality. It just isn't going to change to be what you'd like. I am sorry that this is the case, but it is... I wish it weren't. But it is.

>The sovereignty issue comes in before adopting the law. Part of adopting it is to agree that, for the specific cases covered by that law, the adopting country will comply, thus possibly relinquishing their (sole) "sovereignty" in that specific area.

Men are not machines and they will never act like machines.


>You can't just pick and choose when you will or will not enforce/apply laws to which you have assented.

Why not? That's my point. You go tell China to stop selling missles to Iran and Iraq and make them stop. You make Russia stop selling munitions to Syria by standing up and telling them, "Stop; you're not being nice by not keeping your word and you're hurting my feelings." *chuckle* Think they'll listen Jim?

That's not reality. Do I like it? Nope, not one bit - but it is what it is, whether you or I like it at all.

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>SNIP
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>>As a matter of fact, immediately after the Isralies became a nation they were invaded by the Arabs who wanted to eradicate them. It's been that way for them for over 50 years now.
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>As I understand things, before there was an Isreal there were people in the region fighting for a country to be called Israel. These people were called "terrorists" in their day and later called founders or freedom fighters.

Sure. Arafat still calls them that - but not to his English speaking audience. Amaericans were 'terrorists' when we fought for independence from Great Britain and I'd bet Canada has similar events in its past as well. What's your point?


>By the way, it was international law that "created" Israel.

Well, as far as man goes you're quite correct but immediately after that event it has been the end of a gun barrel (from man's pov) that has kept it. You are aware that in the Old Testament that some 2500 years ago the prophets of Israel & Judah predicted that at a certain point in the future that the nation of Israel (defined as two sticks) would be joined together as 'one stick'? You are aware that in all of recorded history that with the exception of Israel that no other nation ever has maintained it's national identity beyond three generations of being dispersed from it's land. Find me a Babylonian or an Edomite. There's more going on here than most folks realize. Israel will not only prevail but their neighbors will be destroyed - not because of Israel though.


>I agree that eradication seems to have ALWAYS been the goal of most Arabic countries and that it still looks very much that way today.

Ues. Sad but true.