Tracy,

>>Tracy,
>>
>>>Mathew 21
>>>
>>>1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
>>>
>>>2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
>>>
>>>3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
>>>
>>>Ok, if the donkey was tied up, it OBVIOUSLY belonged to someone, and it doesn't mention paying for it or asking for it....sounds like theft to me! He even tells them what to say if someone tries to stop them! Theft!!!!! 30 years was not enough Doug...
>>
>>*chuckle*
>>
>>Ever borrow a lawn mower or ladder from a neighbor? If you read #3 you'll also notice the phrase 'and straightway he will send them.' That means in modern English, 'The Lord needs to use them and He'll send it right back.'
>>
>>And you want to infer theft?
>
>Yes I do.

Well, Jesus knew what was going to happen and the fellow did let them take the animals..

*shrug*



>

>
>>
>>No offense Tracy but that is just about the screwiest attempt at logic I've ever seen. You're inserting your prejudice into a plainly told story albeit the differences in the use of English in 1611 and 2002. ALso, the word 'Lord' is a translation of the Greek 'kurios' which is the Greek version of the Old Testament word 'JHVH', often translated as 'Jehovah' or God Almighty. IOW, the disciples essentially told the owner of the donkey & colt, "The Messiah needs to borrow these two and will return them right away." Remember, Jesus was very well known by now so either the owner of these animals knew who Jesus was or perhaps even was someone who had had closer encounters with him. If your neighbor came over and borrowed a shovel, lawnmower or wheelbarrow you wouldn't call them a thief. You might be a stingy person or have a nasty disposition and as such be unable to get along with your neighbors but in allmost all of the cases I've ever seen where folks borrow items in a
>neighborhood
>>it's innocent enough to avoid the notion of theft.
>>
>I don't think so. IMHO it is still theft and you are using selective interpretation to justify those actions. If someone (even my neighbor) borrows my car without asking that is theft and I believe the law would back me on that one. A donkey and a shovel do not have the same value and back then they did not either.

Well, I think you're being a little too strict I guess. My neighbors are welcome to borrow any of my garden tools without asking me. As long as they take care of them and return them.

>
>>Maybe then you live in a neighborhoos where people don't talk or aren't friends??
>>
>
>My neighbors are very friendly and share all the time. They do, however, use the common courtesy of asking first, as do I.

Well, I'd always ask first as well but if I wasn't home I wouldn't have any gas if someone borrowed something from me - as long as they returned it and let me know.

>
>>Oh.. The Mount of Olives is within walking distance of where Jesus would have entered Jerusalem via the East Gate. I've been there and while I didn't walk the distance as we had busses it wasn't more than about 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile.
>>
>>Oh.. One other thing...
>>
>>In Zechariah 9:9 written at least > 500 years before Jesus was born he wrote, "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."
>
>And you know for sure that Jesus did not choose to steal a donkey and a colt BECAUSE it was written? Sounds very similar to false prophets of today... (although I myself do NOT believe that Jesus was a false prophet, in fact the contrary)

??

>
>>
>>Interesting that Zechariah knew that not only would there be a donkey but that donkey would have a foal and that the Messaiah would ride on that foal, not the donkey.
>>
>
>It could also be Jesus inserting himself into Zechariah's teachings. Or Zechariah could very well have forseen the future, but that does not mean that the donkey and colt were not stolen.

Well, the donkey and foal had to be there and the owner had to challenge the disciples as he did - all of which Jesus said he would do. Maybe Jesus did it to convince you he was more than a mere man?? <g>

>
>>Hmmm.. Maybe someone in a spaceship went back in time and wrote that!
>>
>
>Very funny! :o) You do have a sense of humour! :o)

Oh good heavens yes. I take myself not so seriously as you may think. I do take what I believe seriously and am quite interested in these issues - but as for me.. I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning and that in and of itself is enough to convince me that God has a great sense of humor. <g>

>
>>No.. wait.. jesus must have read that and arranged for it. yeah.. That's what it was..
>>
>
>No, Jesus either chose the best means to entering the city to ensure the people would see him as the Messiah in Zechariah's writings or was truly following god's will... either is possible.

Well, as I mentioned there were just too many specific prophecies to make it coincidence. All I can tell you to do is to go do the research for yourself. I can point you to some good sources but you have to take the next step I suppose. The stats are just too compelling.

>
>>Hmmm.. Wonder how he arranged to be born in Bethlehem before he was born?
>
>You're getting defensive and too sarcastic to prove your interpretation a bit I think...

Not at all.. The Old Testament specifically states that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. I was merely pointing out that this would be a difficult prophecy for Jesus to arrange. <g>

>
>>
>>Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting."
>>
>>Sheesh.. Use the brain God gave you. <g>
>>
>
>Now this is truly disrespectful to me for being skeptical and open to different interpretations of the text. It actually makes you APPEAR to be a typical 'bible toting maniac' that gets rude when questioned, but I do not believe that is what you truly are having read your often thoughtful and insightful past messages...

*sigh*

Sorry to hurt your tender feelings.. <g>

I forget that others haven't are really quite illiterate with respect to any Biblical knowledge. Maybe you weren't aware of the absolute preponderance of evidence for the case that Jesus was/is the Jewish Messiah, both Biblically and historically. As such I apologize for being impatient. However, you really should look at the evidences IMO..



>
>>
>>>Tracy
>>>
>>>SNIP
>>>>>For that matter, He wasn't riding a donkey as He approached Jerusalem, but instead was walking. When He came within site, He had some followers trek ahead and steal a donkey from Jerusalem, which he then rode into town.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $.02, though, sorry if I pissed anyone off.
>>>>
>>>>Nahh.. Not upset if you disagree at all. You have every right to be wrong. <g>
>>>>
>>>>Having kidded you a little I would recommend you go back and read those accounts again. You've sort of embelleshed them with what appears to be some personal animus. NBD.. Happens all the time when folks don't have all the facts. Most church-going folks hardly ever read the Bible, let alone those who are predisposed against it. If you have any questions though I'll be more than happy to help answer them. I've been studying the book for some 30 years now so I have a fair idea of what it actually says, though it surely doesn't need me to defend it, knucklehead that I am at times. <g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>jfh