Sylvain,

>Doug,
>
>>Well, peer pressure also works if its directed away from having sex ...
>
>Hmmm, well, I guess it shows that our youth wasn't at the same time. I'm turning 29 soon, and when I was in high school/college, a guy that didn't have sex by 18 was considered a jerk, most likely labelled off as gay. How's that for peer pressure?

Ahh.. That explains a lot. I just turned 50. A LOT happened in those 21 years of difference Sylvain. You don't have those years of observation that I do.

>
>Straying to get to something related I went through: I never liked alcool. I just don't like the taste. I tried various beers, wine, etc., but I don't like it, so I just drink Pepsi. You wouldn't beleive how much I've been told I was an idiot/not a real man because I don't drink beer. I've once been told "I'd never trust someone who doesn't like a beer now and then." Beeing drunk? Never done it.

I never liked the taste of alcohol either. I could care less what others think as far as that goes.

>
>I guess my point is that peer pressure doesn't always go the way it should/people want to.

No argument on that point but that is not the same as saying that peer pressure doesn't have an effect. I say it does and when I was growing up the peer pressure was in a majority for abstinence, not against it.

>
>>If something has to be 100% to be accepted there are lots of things I can see we should get rid of, like midnight basketball. <g>
>
>I think we can agree on that one! ROFL!

Like two trains passing in the night. <g>

>
>>So, let me ask you a question that might shed light on this. Do human beings have intrinsic rights? If so, when do they acquire these rights? Also, where are they derived from?
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>Rights are a human notion. As far as I'm concerned, the baby is still part of the mother's body until it's born. Take it out after a month and see how well it does. As for Do/When/Where? I haven't looked at that, so I'll try something on the spot: No - as I said, it's a human notion. (continuing assuming I've answered yes) Somewhere around when they are no longer totally dependant on the mother - I don't think there is a cut-off point that applies to everyone. Rights would be "derived" from laws, I guess.

Well, I think that laws are derived from the notion of intrinsic rights - at least here in the US. You've probably heard the phrase "certain inalianable rights", which are referred to as having been there by virtue of being given by the Creator. For me the notion that you or anyone else has these intrinsic rights is just a given. Whether or not you act like a creep (you don't but you get the idea) I still need to treat you with the respect due you as a created being. IOW, you get the respect, not by virtue of you but by virtue of whom God is, if that makes sense.

>
>>Yes you are. Since almost all abortions are not for medical reasons the only one left is convenience. You yourself stated above "If the parents don't want to have a child at all, I also have no problem with that.". If that's not an argument for abortions based upon convenience (the parents? the child's) I don't know what is. Unless I'm missing something you want this both ways. Perhaps you can clarify here??
>
>I'll get to an extreme to (hopefully) make it obvious: a couple keeps going to abortion clinics every now and then. I think I'd be inclined to tell them "GET A CLUE!"

I believe in Russia the average number of abortions is somewhere around 11 per woman. Of course they don't have the contraceptives but if all those kids had been born they wouldn't be having a lot of the financial difficulties they're now having. Here in the US we're some 30 millions short due to abortion and I'd bet that we've lost a lot of talent. It's just such a huge waste imo...

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>Reasons someone would want abortion: rape, condom ripped, pill didn't work, both were heavilly drunk (the guy and girl, not the condom and pill! <g>). I see it as more than convenience here.

The child is an innocent bystander in these cases. Why punish the child for the behavior of the man or woman? Like I said, put the child up for adoption.

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>>You're using circular reasoning here it seems. First you claim no soul exists and then you claim that the proff no soul exists is that there is no proof the soul exists. <g> You can't prove that green men didn't live on the moon either. Since you have no proof that they didn't then there's no proof that they didn't. <g>
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>Well, sort of. <g> Let's see: people say there is a soul. Now I ask myself "is there a soul", and start looking for answers. Eventually, I can't find anything that supports the existence of a soul. The only conclusion I can come up with is that there isn't any to begin with.

Again.. Depends on your definition. Did you think about the one I offered?

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>I can't prove that matter is made of electrons either. I've been taught about them, and it makes sense to me, so yeah, I think they exist. Experiments seem to show that they exist. If someone come up with something that shows that they don't exist, I'll take a look at it, and if I agree, I'll stop thinking they exist.

So that means you believe in God, even though you can't prove His existence (to be consistent... Ahemmmm <bg>) That's great!! <g> Or does the logic flow the other way here.. <g>

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>>Does mine work at all?
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>It's at least as good as mine! <g>
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>>Thanks BTW for your insights. While we disagree I hope you understand that I have no less respect for you whatsoever and I hope you understand this.
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>Yep, I know that! <g> I think our disagreement just comes from not agreeing on some basics, which of course alter our perception of everything else. Geez, sometimes I get the feeling I could have gone in psychology (sp?) instead! <g> Until humans learn much more (in, say, 10000 years), I guess we'll still have our differences. But if you're right, ask St-Peter if he can get me a vacation from hell for a few hours, and I'll gladly tell you I've been wrong! I don't think I'll have an Internet connection in hell to send you email - that's why it's hell! <g>

Well, no offense meant but this subject is too horrific for me to joke about. I hope you understand. I do not want to see anyone separated from the love I've come to know. I hate this part... :(

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>And what the hell does all this has to do with "Republicans and Free Trade"?!?!? <g>

*chuckle*

Nothing. What's your point? <g>