>I wonder if I should be using the frmDatamanager based forms at all then...hmmm.

Sure you should. "frmDatamanager" based forms are the way to go, just as always. Its just that the DM is "relegated" to providing the link back to the CDE (from the form) as its main function and provides backward compatability too.

>Right now I'm basing all of my data handling forms on this class - are you using it at all?

Absolutely. Nothing changes in this regards. The main thing to remember is that the DM is no longer the preferred place to subclass or add data oriented rules. All of that is now the domain of the CDE and rule classes. Just remember that the DM can only live on a form whereas the CDE can exist quite happily on its own with no form. This is where/how the separation between the "layers" is enabled.

As I may have mentioned, I create a CDE, adding cursors/rules visually into the CDE container and then create a prog based class inheriting from my VCX based CDE subclass. I then put all other data oriented logic in the prog subclass. IntelliSense gives you the PEM's of the CDE in the prog class too.

HTH.

-=Gary