Awww, you just read too much Army-speak and it lowered your standards < bg >

But thanks. As an aside when I think of someone who obviously had skills, both personal and technical, that cried out for moving on to an environment where they would be better nutured, appreciated - and rewarded - you always come to mind. I can't tell you how delighted I was the first time I saw your change of email address < s >

>Charles, this is the BEST post I've seen in some time...
>:o)
>Tracy
>
>>When I used to fill out forms that asked "profession" I would fill in "Dilletante" - meaning it in the 18th century sense. When I see the technical titans arguing, I pretty much stay out of it. When the issue of life-style choices comes up, I think I have a little better handle than I do in technical matters. No surprise, then, that I see a lot of peoples' problems with boredom, dissatifaction or insecurity in their profession as not a matter of technical issues but rather personal perspective or in their conception of their business model.
>>
>>I think in our "profession" the most interesting thing about it is going into businesses or organizations and getting up to speed as quickly as one can to be able to make observations and suggestions that those who live there might gain from. Using programming to help them clarify their own understanding of whatever it is they do is a kick. The writing code part is an intellectual game, but if that were all this was, I'd go back to doing something else. The people I've met in our Fox community who seem to be making a pretty good living and having fun seem to be those who welcome the rush of translating non-computer-oriented clients' needs into solutions which are what they would have wanted if they had known what they wanted.
>>
>>The thing I've always liked about Foxpro is that it has allowed me to develop apps of just the right size for just the right clients. I have complete control, no second guessing, and get to see the solution from conception to completion. And I get to design systems that are a very personal reflection of the person who wants it.
>>
>>If I were working for a "boss" or being told what language to use or worried about finding clients or nailing people down with contracts I'd need lawyers to enforce, my "profession" would be as different from what I do now as it would if I were to sell shoes or work for the post office.
>>
>>In my world there is no such thing as "it's just business" With me - and my clients - it's personal. We work together because we like each other and find each other interesting. I make them more money than I cost them - and I cost them a lot - and that makes all of us happy and bodes well for the relationship continuing. Fox gives me a great tool to do that.
>>
>>As you often say - horses for courses. Indeed.
>>
>>As I watch people I have learned much from and respect greatly and often like personally engage in passionate screeds I can't help but believe this is not what the argument is about, as I don't see huge differences in the positions taken, only in the perspective.
>>
>>One is reminded of the great line from Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra when Caesar's secretary - the Briton - is expressing middle-class Victorian outrage to the Egyption high-priest over Cleopatra's marriage to her brother. Caeser's interjection is an apt answer to all "religious wars"
>>
>>Caesar says to the priest : "Forgive him, Theodotus, for his is a barbarian and like all members of his race, he thinks the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature."
>>
>>
>>>I think this is a vastly intersting sidebar.
>>>
>>>I'm trained as a mechanical engineer. Good engineering practice is, almost by definition, tedious and boring. Or at least it should be most of the time. And yet there is the creative-side, the artistic-side, the building-something-new-and-exciting-or-differently side, that's always there.
>>>
>>>The applicability of this dichotomy to Software Engineering is striking. Working with any particular development tool naturally becomes more solid and more boring with time, but there always seems to be fresh problems to approach in new ways.
>>>
>>>When I was going through school, ceramics and polymers were the hot new thing. Looking back 20 years, it's striking, and surprising, what eventually did and didn't get successfully built out of ceramics and polymers. Today only small parts of engines are made from ceramics, and all-plastic cars available, but neither panned out as fully in the anticipated directions and, notably, they panned out sensationally in other completely unforeseen directions.
>>>
>>>Looking ahead, I think we'll be equally surprised by what did and didn't end up being economically feasable or sensible with the myriad of hot new things we have to choose from. What's for certain is what we believe now will most assuredly turn out to be wrong in important ways, and right in other unforeseen ways.
>>>
>>>I think the best we can do is cover our bets, and keep the workaday things interesting. Those who bet the farm will either be wildly successful, or wildly otherwise.
>>>
>>>**--** Steve
>>>
>>>>It also depends on how much of your "interest" or lack of boredom depends on what language you use and how much depends on your client mix, the business problems you are trying to solve etc.
>>>>I was pretty bored with 2.6 as a language about 1995 but the business problem and client challenges made that just a small part of the equation. This ain't just about writing code ...
>>>>
>>>>>>What you do needs to be intellectually challenging as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh? Where is this written?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just because something pays well, if it is boring, that fact is relevant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hold on. Where are you on this issue? You've said making money is the bottom line, now its not?
>>>>>
>>>>>FWIW, I am not bored with VFP, just the opposite.