Hello Cetin,
thanks for our reply, when I say DE is loaded in the forms load event, I mean I instantiate my own DE class - which in turn uses my Cursor classes, I wouldn't want to go back to using the forms DE at any cost, you're quite right when you say "Why would I want a session object when using private datasessions"?, I've removed it, I couldn't see the wood for the trees, thanks again. BTW does the default session(1) always get wasted when using PDS's? ( or only every Friday night <g>)

regards

Peter Kane