>>>>>Fernando
>>>>
>>>>Fernando;
>>>>
>>>>I would like to think not but where there is money...
>>>>
>>>>A well known doctor on local television in Northern and Southern California made a statement about doctors in our country. "85% are incompetent"! Imagine more doctors in the United States!
>>>>
>>>>The reality of medical care in the United States is that of a “sick industry”. Twenty years ago the doctors made the rules. Many if not most incorporated for legal reasons. They made investments in many business ventures. Many felt that they were more important than the service they “provided”.
>>>>
>>>>Today we have many millions of Americans without health insurance or health care. HMO’s control the medical insurance industry and medicine. We now term anything to do with health care “the health care industry”! Pharmaceutical companies, doctors, insurance companies, etc. along with politicians make the laws and provide the service.
>>>>
>>>>Now a $6 an hour (minimum wage by federal law) telephone clerk reads a script and decides if you will receive medical care that may save your life. But if you do not have insurance that is your problem. Few hospitals will care for anyone without money or insurance.
>>>>
>>>>A friend of mine express the following about the United States. “I am going to enjoy the Republican Retirement Plan by driving my pick up truck far into the dessert and NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN, then I will enjoy the Republican Health Care Plan – NEVER GET SICK”!
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>You mean as opposed to the socialist plan of "We're all too stupid to plan for retirement, so take our money for a retirement Ponzi scheme that will rape our children when we try to collect"?
>>>
>>>Gary
>>
>>Gary;
>>
>>Here is a bit of reality involving me! I worked for Ampex Corporation as an electronics engineer for 15 years. I had over $30,000 of my money in my companies 401K. Our company was bought and sold three times in nine years. In 1990 16,000 people were laid off from Ampex in one day. We were told, “we could not touch our 401K for one year”. If I had been 50 or older as of the day we were fired I would have received $1600 a month retirement. With two kids in grammar school $1600 a month looked good as I had no job.
>>
>>Three months after we were fired we received a letter, “Sorry, your 401K no longer exists. We invested in Executive Life Insurance Company and they went bankrupt”! A few months ago a company bought the remains of Executive Life and they gave a “pay out” to cancel our accounts. I received my check for $9.92 in exchange for my $30,000. I went to Ampex a few weeks ago to inquire about the value of my retirement. We no longer have medical/dental/vision. My $1600 has been reduced to $540 a month.
>>
>>There were over 20,000 people that worked at Ampex worldwide. There are now 50. It is expected that by January 2003 the company will no longer exist. Ampex produced the worlds first commercial audio tape recorders and invented video recording (analog and digital), instant reply and video editing to name just a few things.
>>
>>Plan for your retirement, as social security was not meant for that purpose. That has been the message since 1970. I wish everyone the best of luck. The $1170 a month I will receive from social security will pay half of my rent in Silicon Valley where I live.
>>
>>Memories! George Bush senior was president when I lost my 401K and George Bush Junior is president while I get screwed some more. Have things improved to protect 401K’s? No. Will they improve? Be serious! I am told I may have no retirement from Ampex. Companies in Silicon Valley like to keep you for a while and then fire you so they do not have to pay retirement, etc. If you have a few million in the bank none of this matters to you. Otherwise you could be next.
>>
>>Where to put your retirement investment!
>>
>>1. Invest in the Stock Market – are you kidding?
>>2. Play Lotto – not a bad idea!
>>3. Flush your money down the toilet – at least you can see where it went!
>>4. Put your money in an IRA or 401K – and God knows where it will go.
>>5. Save your money in a bank or savings institution – remember the Savings and Loan scandal? Many people lost his/her life’s savings. Now who did President Reagan appoint as the President of the Committee to deregulate the Savings and Loan Industry? Why it was none other then Vice President George Bush! Amazing how many big money Republican contributors owned savings and loan institutions and hurt many investors but that is all right. Little people deserved to get screwed. Americans will be paying for that for decades!
>>
>>Tom
>
> I'm sorry but I am having trouble following your logic. Somehow Bush Sr. caused the company your company invested its ENTIRE 401k plan in, and yet you feel the government is better suited to managing your retirement funds? If anything, what happened to you is a CLEAR case for INDIVIDUALS to manage their own destinies. As for the choices you made as to where to live, etc - well, that $1170 figure you mention pays the entire mortgage on my house where I live. The huge boom and bust in Internet stocks and other companies that shouldn't have existed in the first place, which also caused a lot of peopel to loose their entire life savings, happened completely during the period while Clinton was President. How come you aren't blaming him for anything? Personally, I don't want ANY of those suckers deciding what path my life takes, let me keep what I earn and run my life as I see fit.

Randy;

I may not be able to express to anyone what I feel or experience but I can try.

No, I am not blaming Bush Senior or Junior nor would I suggest that “government is better suited to managing your retirement funds”. My point was regardless of what we are told reality is a very different story. You may think you have a good retirement plan only to work for 30 or 40 years and find out you have little or nothing. By the time you are ready for retirement or while retired it is too late to start all over again. To think you (third person singular) will have a retirement income when it is time to retire is something that can be destroyed by reasons we have no control over. You may read or hear about them in the media or you may experience it first hand.

As for Clinton, the Republicans shut down many facets of our country fighting this man for an 8 year period. The reason I did not blame Clinton for anything is I mentioned what happened to me which did not include the Clinton years. I could have mentioned FDR and what he did but it is not relevant.

By the way while I was an electronics engineer during the 1990 to 1993 period there were 60,000 unemployed electronics engineers in Silicon Valley. I mention Silicon Valley because I am fourth generation San Franciscan and I live here. This is my experience and not some guy living in another area of the country. When something hits home you feel it. If it does not affect you you may not care.

Bush Senior was running for president against Clinton and came to Silicon Valley. Someone in the audience asked him, “What are you doing for the 60,000 unemployed electronics engineers in Silicon Valley”? Bush answered, “There are plenty of jobs at McDonalds! Next question”! Minimum wage will not go far in my area especially if you have a mortgage and kids to raise as I did. I imagine other people can live like kings in other areas of the nation on minimum wage. We cannot all live in the same place.

Clinton paid 76 visits to Silicon Valley while president. He created many alliances between local, state and federal government with industry and the academic world. Many unemployed engineers received training to peruse new careers. I was one of them. Unemployment benefits were extended. You may not like Clinton or the things he did but I remember how he helped a lot of people in my area. Bush Junior has made no attempt to assist our area. We have a large population of unemployed professonals. Many people have left the area. We have many vacent houses and apartments. California did not vote for him. That may make you happy because he is such a great man. People in my area should suffer because they chose to be born and raised here or live here as the case may be. We should all move to your area so you can enjoy the pleasures of having 35 million people in your state.

By the way in my opinion the greatest motivating factor I see in this country is GREED! GREED is a major reason why prices are so high for houses in my area. Every dog for himself. Just take a bigger bite and be there first. When I retire I will have to move elsewhere. I will not be able to live here. I have over 100 relatives living here and our family arrived in California (Yerba Buena – later called San Francisco) before it was an American possession.

I would like to see all retirement funds put into United States Savings Bonds. If the nation fails you will not have to worry about retirement! Here is a true story.

1970 at a union meeting we were discussing retirement funds paid by the companies into the union treasury. This was the IAM (International Association of Machinists and Aero Space Workers) then second biggest union in the nation. 87% of the people who worked under the IAM never retired because they had to work 15 years minimum. Imagine 87% never vested? Where did the money go? Only the union knew.

One of the senior electronic technicians I worked with suggested we invest the retirement money into United States Savings Bonds, in the name of the individual. If you worked elsewhere the bonds would still be in your name. When the technician finished his suggestion the president of the union screamed, “Sergeant at arms – throw out that communist bastard”! Two goons picked up the technician and threw him out. He was not allowed to return to any meetings.

What is the point? There are many ways to create and invest retirement funds. Some work or are popular. Some work for a minority but not the intended party. I think something should be done to protect the American workers and his/her retirement. Why not invest in our country?

Tom