Hi BOB

Here are some things I've learned. A good programmer knows things take time. They know you need specs (as in specifications) not specks (as in hints about hoped-for features) or its going to take even longer. Even with specs (no K) each design will take different amounts of time and each programmer will take different amounts of time. They know nothing good is easy. Nothing takes the proverbial "10 lines of code", (you have to add parameter checking, error handling and make the code readable).


>Tracy,
>
>If I went to a job where the company was not using a framework, I would quickly convince them that they should be using one, in addition to wizards and builders. After all, computers are there to REDUCE doing rudendent tasks, which is the whole purpose of frameworks wizards and builders, to make you a BETTER, more productive programmer rather than the opposite.
>
>As a matter of fact, unless a company was doing very low level unique stuff (which isn't really VFP like work) I am not sure I would want to work for them, espessially if they don't consider using best practice OOP procedures, use source control, and have a good development methodology with high quality project documentation, etc.
>
>I want to go forward in my knowledge of software development. There is alot more to developing software than writting code. Perhaps, if that is was a programmer is, I don't want to be though of as that. I consider myself a 'developer' which includes product design, project management, specification, testing, deployment, and support and planning for all aspects of the process during all phases, since they all tie togther.
>
>BOB
>
>>OOPS. I did not intend to suggest that he was not a 'good' programmer because he uses the wizards. I believe that I actually stated that in effect he WAS a good programmer because he met the customer's business needs which is what counts.
>>I only meant that for himself and his future, he may want to consider 'working outside the box' and not using the wizards. There are programming shops that do not allow the programmers to use the wizards at all. It is no different than programming in VFP using one framework and never working in vanilla VFP. What happens if the company you work for goes out of business, downsizes, etc and you end up working for a company that either uses a different framework or no framework at all? His BEST bet is to be as comfortable as possible working with the wizards, without the wizards, and with frameworks. That is only protecting his future. It has nothing really to do with being a 'good' programmer or not. I agree that the term 'good programmer' is entirely subjective.
>>I guess I did not express myself very well!
>>Tracy
>>
>>>job you learn that you must NOT use the wizards? Will you be able to create an application without using the wizards? Something to keep in mind.
>>>>
>>>>Tracy
>>>
>>>Um, would a carpenter be able to create a house without a hammer? Perhaps, should he? Would you be able to create an application without VFP?
>>>
>>>For the most part, programmers are judged by the end result rather than the methods and tools used. I generally think this is how it should be.
>>>
>>>But, as someone said, if you use best practice methods, such as the simple one of seperating UI from business logic, and this means when you upgrade or maintain your app it takes you less time.
>>>
>>>There is alot of 'subjective' to 'good programmer.'
>>>
>>>BOb