>You are right, Craig. I don't think they may have done any marketing research since 1994. I would say that the majority of the developers I know are just downright enthusiastic about Visual FoxPro and are serious developers out there on the front lines, contracting, or working somewhere as an employee for a mid-sized or large company. These developers are also aware of .NET and wonder, like I do, when we may have to leave FoxPro behind and move on to something like C#, or will FoxPro continue on in spite of our fears?
>
>But, anyway, in regard to marketing, I think that ProMatrix has done well to have sold over 10,000 copies of their various products. However, I am concerned that Visual ProMatrix may not meet our needs of flexibility and the fact that we don't want to use their proprietary dictionary. We want to use SDT instead. I am beginning to think that ProMatrix is for developers who don't know much about Visual FoxPro and may need a crutch to get through its steep learning curve. Am I wrong?
>
>Cecil

Folks, I am NOT a hobbyist. I make my living writing database applications. I have been developing in Fox products continuously since FoxPro v.1.0 (I actually owned Foxbase+, but was just learning it when FP1 shipped).

Since I joined the ProMatrix community (after Tommy Rettig’s untimely death and the end of TRO) I have written or worked on applications for the service business, health services, project management, purchase order management, environmental licensing, retail inventory management, direct mailing, and more. Among my clients have been the United States Air Force, MGM Corp, physicians, a union, and local government agencies. I developed and taught a ProMatrix training class in England this year. I am associated, as an independent developer, with ProSysPlus, and am a part of the project Hank Fay referred to. We have built this application with 2 experienced VPM developers, and a Fox2.x programmer who hadn’t seen VPM until a couple of months ago.

I own a copy of a previous version of Max Frame. Drew is a truly talented programmer, and the code it is outstanding. But I do not believe we could have come close to building this application in 3 months with MaxFrame. To be fair, the data has been modeled in xCase, and has undergone several iterations during the specification phase, but without features that ProSysPlus has added to xCase and the xCaseToVPM utility to fully integrate those added features into the Data Dictionary, this project simply couldn’t be done in 31/2 months. And without the ProMatrix active data dictionary, the tools wouldn’t be nearly as effective. BTW, 292 tables translates to over 700 views, over 200 forms (probably half of which are multi-view forms), and over 100 reports.

I have read criticism of the VPM Data Dictionary. First, Joe Lawson gave a very good and accurate explanation for it. I can add, that the power of the VPM Data Engine, which works with, but is not dependent on, the VFP DBC, is incredible and very extendable. And for developers who are stuck with legacy data, the VPM Data Dictionary fully supports Referential Integrity on free tables. All that and the ability to handle remote data seamlessly and use the power of the Data Dictionary, locally, against remote data, and soon through an independent COM object.

Someone here mentioned a problem with hot keys, and the command window. It is true, these were issues, several years ago. But when the VPM community asked for changes, they were made. The ProMatrix development team is very responsive to user needs. The error handler is very nice, in the compiled APP/EXE. It is a PITA in the IDE, so we turn it off. Takes 4 mouse clicks to drill down through the menus. I guess 4 mouse clicks must be really tough for some of us figure out <g>.

Public Variables? Yeah, we had to put up with them until about 3 years ago. Now the only public variables in use are to handle some predefined view parameters.

Multi-Lingual toolkit. How many frameworks can support a data driven multi language application, fully integrated with the data engine, natively?

The ProMatrix news groups. How many other frameworks have gone to the expense to set up a forum for open discussion. Only the Priority (paid support subscription) and Beta (obvious purpose) groups are not public, the rest are open to anyone. There is even a Spanish language group for those who find it easier to communicate in their native language. Private? Hiding out form the rest of the VFP community? Give me a break! The UT is a great place to discuss VFP. But for contiguous threads on topics peculiar to any product, especially a development environment, there is nothing like a separate room, or group where the users can congregate. The ProMatrix newsgroups are active, lively, and full of interesting ideas and questions. I have participated in them since their inception, and the e-mail list server which preceded the newsgroups which dates back to the early 90s. I have seen hundreds, probably over a thousand different VPM developers (yes, and some just kicking the tires), come by for some help or a chat. ProMatrix actively supports the UT, and some of our best developers, Aaron Young, Hank Fay, Frank Camp, Haydn Doughty, to name a few, are active here. I don’t spend a lot of time here, because I am so actively involved with peer support on the ProMatrix news groups, but I do come here to read, and ask and occasional question.

I could go on, but I don’t see the need. For those who like MaxFrame, CodeMine, VFE, Mere Mortals, etc., you are unlikely to be persuaded, and that is fine. Some prefer to drive a Chevy, others a Volvo, or Toyota That’s why there are lots to choose from.

All I can say is that I am more productive today than every before, using VPM. I started with Version 3, and have never looked back. No, I don’t know the other frameworks very well. I am sure they all have their points, and benefits. But the one I do know is a well developed product, with mature, bug free code, and with better support than I have ever had on any other product.

If you are curious, take Joe up on his invitation, and come by for a visit. It free <g>. Or, take the demo for a test drive. Its free too. Maybe its not for you, and that is OK too. All I ask is, don’t come by if all you want to do is argue that your favorite frameworks is better than any other. I have confined my remarks to questions, and in some cases, corrected some misinformation, but I have not, nor will I put down, criticize, or otherwise flame the other products An open discussion of the merits of any product is wholesome, an argument is destructive.