Hilmar,

>>The Arabs took Europe out of barbarity?? Yopu mean like all of their advanced cultures we see around the world today? <g> Yessiree.. Give the women a good blue burkah, keep them at home and out of school and if they show do something you don't like just gang rape them. That'll move society forward I'm sure...
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>It is my understanding, too, that the Arab nations took Europe out of barbarity - but that was quite a while ago.

I'd like to think that was true but I dare say I do not think it is. Rather, I think it was the introduction of the Bible to the common man via the invention of moveable type, which raised the general level of literacy that was the primary cause of the end of what we call the dark ages. Before that England was perhap at its highest level when the Romans occupied it as an outpost. As I've mentioned before the Crusades, while a horrible event in many instances was the result of the agression by Islam which was eeking to conquer and destroy the infidel.


>The situation is different now, but the fact still remains that the entire reform movement in Europe (after the "Dark Ages") was greatly inspired by Arab countries, who where at that time very advanced, in mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and other sciences.

I'd disagree. Perhaps you are referring to the Renaissance, which was centered in the general area of Italy but the Reformation (as I understand history) was a lot more God-centered whereas the Renaissance was much more man-centered. It was the influsnece of the Reformation, for example, that spawned the entire notion of what we call science today. An ordrly god created an ordered universe, whose laws we could find out via the scientific method - all of which worked for the fundamental reason that this ordered universe would always react the same, given the specific 'law' that was being tested. I do not see this sense of order in Islamic cultures in the sense I'm suggesting now. The Islamic god (Allah) seems far more capricious and distant. (NOTE: I mean no disrespect whatsoever by this statement, only that it is my current observations)

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>I think it should also be noted that there are big differences (for instance, in ideas about women) between one muslim country and another. (Arabs and muslims is not the same thing, but it does happen that many of the muslim countries are mainly Arabs.)

Ok.. Pick what you would think of as the most advanced Islamic country and name it for me if you would. Then let's go look at their cultural attitudes towards their women. This is a simple test don't you think? I'm betting you'll say Turkey. Let's ask some of the fine folks here about the country you name. Don't misunderstand; I know without a doubt that each individual must be treated as such but overall, am I more right than wrong? If more wrong I'd be delighted to learn and change.