No, John, I don't see any sign that the VFP downturn is any worse than that of the IT industry as a whole, or in the case of conferences the IT/Travel industry as a whole. Moreover considering the hundreds of sources where people can get information instantly online, I'd expect that all VFP magazines would have ceased to exist by now, but they haven't.

Note you point to specific conferences or magazines, and I'm looking at the aggregate picture which you conveniently completely disreguard.

I've said this before: You *NEED* VFP to tank because in this community you're forever going to be Joe Bob. Unfortunately for your and your clairvoyance, I see no (zero) evidence that this is actually happening. What I see are some people having bumpy rides right now. No s**t sherlock. In my view, in aggregate, VFP developers seem in fact be doing rather well compared to any and maybe all other segments.

You seem incapable to grasp that VFP's position is the sum of VFP's position and the overall industry trends. I see a gradually falling industry-wide tide, and you see VFP sinking. Here's news bud: the sinking you percieve is yours. I see zero evidence that VFP is losing buoyancy and, in fact, it may well be gaining relatively, for all I know.

**--** Steve





>>3) Conference-wise, when we actually measure it, I don't see any downturn, or anything out of the ordinary given the background business cycles. See http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~VFPConferenceAttendance, this despite the proliferation of conferences of all sorts.
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>3000+ attendance in 1993. Today, you will be lucky to see more than 750.
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>You don't see ANY downturn?????? Please....
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>4) Other indicators, such as aggregate forum message volumes, is not down despite the proliferation of forums.
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>>5) Aggregate numbers of magazine sales is not down, none have folded, despite the increasing volume excellent quality and free internet content. Considering the folding and the renaming / rebranding of publications in other segments, what does that say about the stability and viability and commercial vitality of the VFP segment?
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>I guess you need to track the FPA subscription numbers from 1993 to the present. Today, it is a weak magazine barely able to squeak out 42 pages. The number of subscribers is about a 4th. of what it was in 93/94.
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>Not down???? Please.... You ARE in denial...
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>>6) The numbers of third-party VFP vendors is not decreasing, and they are still advertising, sponsoring conferences, buying booths, creating new versions, etc, this despite the proliferation of areas and layers into which VFP is being used these days.
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>I am going to bet that VFP vendors don't sell as much as they used to. Do you sell as much INTL today as you did 5-6 years ago?
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>>7) Admittedly it's not all rosy, but it's not bleak either.
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>Nice qualfification...
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><<
>The only thing that's rosy, in my view, is that I can now get one degree of separation between me and my users/suppliers/customers.
><<
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>Thats business with .NET..< bg >...
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>>8) Moreover, when I attend a VFP user group meeting where those seeking work outnumber those offering work, I'll let you know. It hasn't happened to me yet. I suggest that your "reports from various user groups" that you mention in a prior message is just another joebobism, a fabrication.
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>Speaking of groups, numbers of those are way down too.
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>A while ago, I asked you to find a single upward trend that overcomes the delines of the past 5-7 years in the Fox market. You could not do it then, you cannot do it today...
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>>Also, for your information, I know a some really excellent PowerBuilder developers, and that's a great niche. You can actually get proven tools for PowerBuilder, and the average PowerBuilder consultant has five more years and several more deployed projects than does anyone in the .NET world. Another great thing about the PowerBuilder niche is hordes of gullible people (developers and customers) aren't blindly flocking to it in droves. So don't go blindly smacking PowerBuilder, because clearly you don't have a clue.
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>Great niche huh????
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>>In short, I think you're the one in need of a reality-based reset.
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>ROFLMAO!! The next 18-24 months are going to be fun...