I'll have to look into that, Rick. I'm not sure and Ken is out of town, so I'm not sure what's on the beta available for DL by MSDN subscribers.

>John,
>Since the Beta passed out at DevCon (and presumably the one publicly available later this week), didn't have any sample code, what are the chances that we can get some of the Solution Samples for 8.0 earlier?
>
>Rick
>
>>Hi Terry,
>>
>>You raise good points. FYI, there are three new tools shipping with VFP 8 that will be primarily written in VFP - they are the Toolbox, Code References, and the Taskpane. These are premiere examples of what can be accomplished using VFP.
>>
>>There are also some pretty nice looking demos in the Solution samples that ship with the product.
>>
>>
>>>Some of the most dedicated people in the world are [here] on this board. The breadth and depth of disciplines is both magical and staggering! If every VFP project in the world was overseen by anyone on the UT, we wouldn't be having discussions about VFP image problems. Truth is, VFP and her native data base are the most powerful software development platform in the world. Our image problem is not related to VFP. Let's face it - some not quite ready for prime time projects have been forced down the throat of our market.
>>>
>>>There are a group of prospective developers and users out there that know of VFP but do not like the apps they've seen. What they've seen is a lots of grids, lots of nested forms and too many end-user rules. If a VFP application has the look and feel of a spread sheet (but is slightly more complicated, and much more expensive), then prospective users and developers believe that is all VFP can do, and could justifyably turn away.
>>>
>>>There are sexy, seamless [and] powerful VFP applications in vertical markets. But, unfortunately, our prospective VFP user and developer market rarely see those.
>>>
>>>We have also heard development teams brag,"our VFP program has over a zillion lines of code ..". Is that good? Modal forms nesting through ladders of select statements. DBF's with every field indexed. Fat, grid heavy programs that look more like a class project than a finished program. Are those applications appealing?
>>>
>>>Question: How do you know someone is a VFP developer?
>>>Answer: They tell you they are.
>>>
>>>We have all heard the KISS (keep it simple stupid) phrase. It doesn't mean the developer should simplify their efforts, and break their projects down to a string of connected paragraphs. It means it should be easy and intuitive for the end user. It means the project should be thought out before the first file structure is laid. Someone fimiliar with the industry the application was intended for should be able to sit down and use it right out of the box!
>>>
>>>If we want commercial success for VFP, then we need to make sure our projects have commercial appeal. It might be helpful to our community to have a forum to discuss the philosiphies and rudiments of software design and development. Most on this board have those rudimentary skill sets, so the issues we discuss [mostly] are discreet technical items.
>>>
>>>Understanding: There are a lot of people out there with negligible skill sets, passing themselves off as whatever will get the bucks, writing terrible systems. It's kinda hard to get a foot in the door when the last VFP project the prospect purchased sucked!
>>>
>>>I've caught a lot of poo-poo's for this: But some terrible things are being done with commercial frameworks. Applications are being written to fit within the FW paradigm, rather than the end user's requirement. Sure - the data needs to be collected, maintained and reported - thats the what of it. Perhaps, if we address the how and why, also, it may do wonders for the growth we all want.
>>>
>>>One method to show what VFP can really do would be show the some of those sexy [simple] downtown state of the art VFP projects. Cool software makes me pay attention. If those teaching the new developers or the prospective developers themselves could drive a couple real cool VFP solutions, perhaps [then] we could attract the dedicated professionals [en mass] our community needs!
>>>
>>>
>>>RANT OFF -Beat me up Scotty!
>>>Terry
>>>
>>>
>>>>This a call to all VFP fans to take the unique opportunity given to us by the public VFP8 beta and do a grassroots marketing campaign for VFP.
>>>>
>>>>MS is giving us the ammunition. Let's burn CDs with the beta (that is alright since it is a public beta) and give them to all to try. Let's teach VFP to all our acquaintances and promote the heck out of it.
>>>>
>>>>This will be great fun and also bring continued support to VFP, since more resources ($ from sales) will be available and that will be good for us.
>>>>
>>>>What do you say?