Hi John,

>Doug
>
>That healthcare is "free" to users is not a trivial or semantic point. If you were in New Zealand and were injured in a car crash, you'd get free care.

Same here. No matter what, whether or not you'd be able to pay, your life would be saved if at al possible.

>You pay no tax or anything else yet service is free.

Nonsense. Even if I were a visitor to your beautiful country there is alittle piece of that cost built into everything I spend money on. Think about that a little....

It is NOT free! Someone pays! This seems not much more than semantic nonsense to me.

Here, in the example above, you'd get the care and then, after the fact, you'd be approached to provide compensation. If you were indigent there are funds available for covering just those expenses. Usually to be found in the US$5.00 asprin. <g> The costs are in fact spread around here too. <s>

>We taxpayers foot the bill and we're generally happy to do so, because it makes us happier to live in a society where children and suddenly disadvantaged people will receive care whether they have a fat wallet or not.

Oh, barf. <g> I seriously doubt that at the local pub there is a "Thursday Socialised Medicine Appreceation Night" <bg>

Where is Monty Python whe you need them? <g> I can just see it now.. All standing around singing the praises of the local gastroendrochronologist to some looney tune. <g> "He keeps me gas down, Phhht phhht!"

Everyone receives care here as well. The US press seems to be foisting an image on the unsuspecting that we here starve our children and force them to live in the streets with no health care. Usually when this happens it's a direct result of an irresponsible parent. The care is always available at many many free clinics that are in all states and readily available. Plus, there is a law on the books here that makes it illegal to refuse care to an indigent. So, the only ones who do not receive care here are those who have a greater procilivity for placing themselves in harm's way than others.

>
>As for comparitive healthcare: the UK Healthcare system is often criticised but actually it provides a huge range and quality of service for the cost. Those who complain may not be fully informed about the alternatives.

Uh huh.. Like you said.. Go fix those varicose veins.

Regardless.. Someone ends up paying. I'm all for charity, don't get me wrong, but not at the expense of dignity. Socialism robs man of his dignity because one of its fundamental presumptions is the inability of the individual and the need to legislate compassion; as though the state (made up of individuals) is somehow more compassionate than individuals themselves. Logical nonsense IMO.

>
>I am also aware that the US system is increasingly characterised by waits and dissatisfaction, especially in managed care environments.

You bet it has been! And, in a decidely remarkable coincidence the level of federal regulations (socialism at it's best) and malpractice judgements have also grown at the same proportion and at the same time too!!!!

Must be a statistical anomoly or fluke, huh? <bg>

>
>You are correct that in joint public-private systems such as NZ, Varicose veins and the like are no longer done in the Public system. Nor are extremely expensive treatment options. Those who want such service can move to the Private system and pay to have it done just as you do.

Please define "extremely expensive treatment options". Would this have anything to do, for example, with inserting a pig's valve in the heart of someone, say 70ish years old or so to combat the degeneration of the mitral valve and also providing a four-way bypass at the same time? It's an expensive operation for sure. My father-in-law had just such an operation about 5 years ago when he was 70 (or so). He's well and healthy today but might have died as a result of cardiovascular failure if he hadn't had the operation.

Letting him die for the sake of saving on an expensive operation isn't much of an example of societal compassion is it?

Think about that for a minute......

I mean, what value can a 70 year old give to society. Let them die and get out of the way of those who are actually doing societ'y work. Yessiree.. Euthanasiats arise and defend your right to kill all the useless and old and unproductive! I'd hate to be the one standing before God to give an answer as to why I tried to usurp His position.

Actually John, in many cases it is illegal for some doctors to accept cash or private payors here under threat of losing their Medicare funding status. I'll bet you're not aware of that little tidbit of information. <s>