>Hi Bruce,
>
>Putting aside politics and religion for a moment, lets talk about the spiritual nature of man. It seem like throughout history and within every nation and culture around the world, there exists the same conscienceness of a spirtual nature of man that transcends our current perceptions of a three dimensional physical world. The Egyptians believed in a spritual world in which the spirit crossed a lake to enter into the next world. The same concept was held by the American Indians that believed the spirit entered the happy hunting gounds when the body died. The happy hunting ground was ruled by a loving great spirit. This concept was in place long before the Native Americans were exposed to Europian religious infulences.
>
>The same concept exit in the deepest darkest jungles of Afica. Every culture around the world seem to agree with these fundamentail precepts.

Hi Leland - First, I would say that "every culture" is seriously mistaken in their fundamental precepts. I don't mean to say that all of mankind is always stupid or ignorant, just that we are still in the very early stages of understanding the cosmos on earth. We still tend to too-easily accept what others say, and we continue to socialize these beliefs on to our children, societies, and cultures, without any solid evidence, and certainly without proof.

More to the point is that the general lot of most of mankind up to date (the human masses, as opposed to the very few wealthy ruling class persons in all societies) has been in rather poor condition - slavery, poverty, despair, hopelessness to improve one's born-into life status, etc., which leads to a search for something better.

The "something better" so often is not to be found in life, due to the hopelessness of the "born-into" position. Therefore the search expands from finding something better in "this life" into finding something better in a "next life" - which leads to a desperate hope for an afterlife. This is how religions (and political movements, roughly , anyway) both begin. Once they catch on among the worst-off, they are simply passed down through "socialization' from one generation or group to another. That's how they start, and how they flourish, despite the fact there is no supporting evidence anywhere yet demonstrated, to an objective person.

All these beliefs are untenable baloney, IMO, but the *rationale behind* the religious (and political) movements and beliefs is *very understandable*! I might well feel the same way, were I born into a hopeless situation to better my condition. I might either subscribe to a current belief, or if I'm an "alpha/leader-type," start a new belief of my own design.

>There is some evidence of the spiritual world. At the risk of sounding nuts, what are ghosts? What is a near death experience. What is ESP? There seem to be evidence of something, but it must be we only see the edges of another dimesion. Like radio wave coming into a radio, we hear the music, but do not understand the dynamics. Just because the radio wave cannot be seen, or held in our hand to examine, or capture into a box, does not mean that it does not exist.

As someone else said, more-or-less, "show me!" I will be the first to admit we are a relatively primitive bunch of creatures who have little grasp of what-all is out there in the cosmos, but I still say "show me!" if you wish me to subscribe to ideas of other dimensions, spiritualities, etc. In the meantime, I will discount them all. This includes the "other side" too - scientists that talk about our universe or phyisical laws as we know them currently as if it included *everything* and is the "end-all" - that's just more baloney of a different "belief nature," IMO. (I suspect there are an infinite number of universes, and much more to the scientific physical laws than we know. And who knows what else beyond our current scientific abilities and understanding.)

(And all this is said by one who has been through beliefs in all sorts of things at various life stages: religion, reincarnation, paranormal, later on science & aetheism - but now it is "none of the above.")

>Ones concept of God reveals much about the nature of each of us. Regilion is so fundamental to each of us, that it defines us right down to the very deeps of our souls. God either is or he is not. I believe he is. I believe he is a loving God with a great sense of humor. He must look down at us and chuckle, whenever we get ourselfs into a mess one more time, like going up against that 800 lb guerrilla that is best left undistrubed.

You can tell by now, I'm sure, that religion and/or any other belief in a god or gods or paranormalism, etc., is no longer "fundamental" to me. There is no need to believe in unsubstantiated ideas to have a fulfilling and highly moral life, during our journey on this planet. There are a boundless number of wondrous natural things here, and much wondrous good in mankind, without the need to resort to beliefs in such things that are beyond our ability to substantiate. IMO.

If there is something else beyond the physical life, great (as long as it's not Hell! :-) But it's a wasted life that clings to such an afterlife assumption, at least once a human is out of the "born-into-hopeless-positon" status I outlined above.