>>I may have been advocating for the wrong "Toolbar". I was refering to the OCX guy:-), my appologies. You can add an ocx tool bar to a container:
>>

oForm.AddObject('cntToolBar','cntToolBarClass')
>

>
>Ah, right - that changes the situation quite a bit.

There are a few things that seem difficult (if not impossible) to trick visually:-).