Hi, Jim.

>>It would be great if you can. Much of what have being discussed in the recent thread about this issue is based in little understanding of what MS SQL Server actually is and does. Is not a problem to not know its details. But to be fair arguing, you first have to know more about it. It's *really* worth doing it, believe me. ;-)
>
>I must take issue with your statement "...is based in little understanding of what MS SQL Server actually is and does", Martin.
>
>It's true that I have NOT used MSDE or SQL Server in an application yet, but I do have a good understanding of what it is and what it does.

Point taken. But I insist in that you are underestimating SQL Server features in some of the things you state that VFP is fairly equal, while I think it's not. And that may be product of having not experimented too much. SQL Server is -as yourself said- a large and complex product. I don't think even it's fair to try to compare it to VFP data engine.

>My complaints were two-fold:
>1) pushing MSDE/SQL Server by crapping all over VFP native tables;

I understood you point, but totally disagree with the idea that Jim Duffy does such a thing. Have you actually being in one of your sessions, or did you just read it. I had the pleasure of hearing Duffy at work at DevTeach and I can assure that he's FAR from crapping over VFP. But he makes many valid point about why MSDE/SQL Server is a better engine. Points that I adhere too, based on my own experience. For me, leaving DBFs made a terrible FINANCIAL impact.

The amount of technical support hours that I couldn't charge to my customers due to data consistency errors is 99% gone. Now that's really a big difference for me. Moreover, every time that we had weird problems with DBF data, we had to spend lots of time trying to figure what went wrong, and many times discover that there was some network, disk, or other external problem. Now, each time something results in bad data, we KNOW that it's our fault. But this is very, very less often than previously.

>2) Making it all sound so simple, like you do NOT need to understand SQL Server to deploy using MSDE. Essentially it was: MSDE comes with VFP, MSDE is free, MSDE **IS** SQL Server, so do yourself and your users a favour and implement MSDE so that you/they no longer suffer from corrupted data or slow service or insecure system because all it takes is SPT.
>I know enough about SQL Server to know that there is considerably more to worry about than installing MSDE and using SPT. And I'm not aware of any document in MS that explains what parts of SQL Server are or are not "in" MSDE and more importantly the particulars of deploying MSDE for a user (logs management, backup strategies, performance factors......

No one implied that it is SO simmple. In fact, the whole idea of presenting a session on the topic seems to me implying that there are at least a few tricks to learn. But anyway, it is not also SO difficult neither. It took me about half a day to build my first sample app using SQL Server about 5 or 6 years ago, although it was not something pretty. A week after that, I was working quite comfortable. Of course, I stucked with things like dates coming as datetimes, not having empty dates, etc, but those were just a few things to solve and go on.

>Finally, I think that MSDE/SQL Server could be 'sold' on its own MERITS and there is absolutely NO NEED to crap all over VFP native data to make that sale!

I think you missed some point here, Jim. The session was not oriented to the big public and did not said anything along the lines of VFP sucks, SQL Server is the only truth. It was geared to VFP developers, and obviously, its point is to point at why Duffy, and many other developers(including myslef) believe that VFP is a great tool than can be best complemented with this database technology that is more stable, robust and mature.

Does this denies that a programmer can do great things with DBF tables? Of course not. Universal Thread is a living proof of how many things can be done with them. But in most cases, SQL Server/MSDE is -in some people perspective- a better alternative that don't necesarilly involves speding a lot of money or having to start all your programming from scratch.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Best regards,