Paul;

I must agree with you. I advocate using a framework for a number of reasons and have said so for years. It is really a matter of bread and butter. I prefer an outstanding team of developers creating, maintaining and advancing the framework I use while I develop applications my users pay me for. If I have a question I have a source to go to for answers.

If I did not use a framework my costs would be out of line with what a client can pay. To create my own framework leaves me in the position to resolve all issues that may occur from my framework. It is a wise decision to let a team of experts work for you and provide the framework you use. To do otherwise is an unwise business decision.

I have met a number of VB 6.0 programmers that are doing VB.NET. They have no concept of the value of a VFP like framework and choose to use objects as they did in VB 6.0. What is inheritance? Who needs it? Real programmers write each line of code! In reality these people have no concept of how to save time and energy. I have better things to do than put in 16 hour days because “I write my own code”.

Management likes workers to put in long hours. It shows “dedication, a team spirit, and a willingness to meet company goals and objectives”! In reality it leads to divorce, health problems and failed companies. Management has to understand the value of using proper tools and methodologies. Too often they do not. All too often management has no concept of how to run a business, treat people or manage.

A friend of mine has a great expression, “Come the revolution we are going to do things right this time”! :)

Tom





>>Using your head and using a calculator are very different skills.
>
>I didn't mean to argue that they weren't. Or that knowing the underlying details of any operation isn't something useful.
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>However, we as developers seem to often lose track of the ultimate goal of software development. That goal is to solve some problem. We tend to see the problem solving as an end unto itself and forget the fact that it's the results that matter to everyone else.
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>Software languages are generally designed to abstract out the complexity of problem solving (whatever that problem may be). Why do we use VFP instead of Assembler? Why Assembler instead of Hex? Why Hex instead of binary? While it's certainly useful to have all that knowledge available when you are solving problems, in a lot of cases the complexity of it makes it very difficult. We need to work at a higher level of abstraction. I see frameworks as letting me work at a higher level of abstraction than working directly with "bare metal" VFP code. It isolates me from some of the complexity of dealing w/VFP and lets me focus on what is really important - solving business problems.
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>It's not that that information wouldn't ultimately make me a better developer; it's that as a developer I've got a finite number of hours in any given day. I need to pick and choose where I spend those hours are spent (and usually someone else is paying me for that time; I owe it to them to give them the best value for their money). I've decided that my time is better spent building on top of work that other smart developers have done. I don't have time to reinvent the wheel every step of the way, just so I have a complete understanding of what is involved.
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>(on your LEM/Apollo example - as impressive as it is to have someone do those calculations in their head, if I was aboard that ship I would have preferred they double check the results via the book/sliderule <g>)