>>Yet another who doesn't get the point! I'm not specifically attacking MM.NET, I'm just saying a commercial framework will never be quite as flexible as your own.
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>Only if you build a good one.

If you can't write a "good" one, you shouldn't be writing software... Or on UT!

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>>It doesn't take that many hours of experience, at least not many more then learning a commercial framework like MM.NET. I think most of the people in here know HOW to write a flexible Data Access class, (at least I hope). I mean there are some serious conceptual changes of .NET from other languages, but those need to be learned no matter what framework you use.
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>Why? If the data access class is written why do I need to learn how to write it?

Why? It would be nice to write one. Don't you have higher aspirations? Perhaps, someday you'll be working at Microsoft, as project manager of .NET 2010. When they ask you about Data access, you just reply "Oh, somebody at Microsoft should know how to write that! Or we can pay for a commerical Framework".

It is probably a good idea as a developer to know. If not being able to customize and understand it.
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>>Techincally it is. Just like Microsoft is lik ANY other computer software company.. Hmmm... Yeah.. .NET Framework is commerical true, but that is like saying Yoda was just another plan Jedi.
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>Kevin is Yoda.

If Kevin is anyone, he is Darth Vader.. because after all Microsoft is the "evil empire".

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>>he might make some great features that will be coming, but it is scary to have a small group of ppl.. (even if they are UTers) determine the direction of ASP.NET or .NET.
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>If you want to write a lot of code waiting for MS to deliver two-data binding in ASP.NET but I don't. If you implement it in your own framework aren't you going in a direction all your own?

Yeah.. Isn't Kevin going in a direction of his own? When MS gets around to implementing it. If I do it my own way, I'll be able to update or change it. If i use MM, I will have to wait til Kevin updates or changes it. I don't like relying on others when my business depends on it.

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>>That is a pretty bold statement saying where it is "suppose" to be and where it will be. It might be a nice framework, but after all.. It started in FoxPro, how good could it REALLY be? (Sorry.. needed to take a shot at VFP).
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>I don't think Kevin would agree that it started in FoxPro. VFP and .Net are so different and he started from scratch with this framework. I'm sure he utilized his experience from building a framework in VFP but thats it.
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>

I just wanted to take a shot at FoxPro, i know they are totally different.
>Better skills as a developer?, perhaps. Every thing else I would have to disagree.
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>As an inexperienced developer why would I rely on my skills to write the most important part of my application? A framework must be built before everything else. It will be the first thing I build as an inexperience developer. If it sucks my whole application is crap. I would much rather rely on the expertise of someone else.
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Well, if you are an inexperience developer, I think it would be worthwhile so you can become a "superstar" developer. SUPERSTAR! But if you don't feel worthy, about writing the most important part of your application who is going to do it?

I mean, "usually" i think.. the developer writes the most important part.. Otherwise why write anything? Why don't you rely on the expertise of someone else in you company, or start developing your own and have help from UTers.

I mean you don't have to be a SUPERSTAR developer, I'm not saying i'm a SuperStar.. but I do wear Superman underwear so that may count.

But I would think that the "most" important part of your software you would want to write. I always do, so I can know how it is done and make sure it is down correctly. If I don't know how to do it, I learn. We have developed a framework, and it isn't that much more of a task then learning to use a commerical framework like MM.NET.

>There are superstar developers out there, I'm not one of them.
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>Also from a RAD perspective, when time is of the essence, building your own just isn't an option.

I know RAD is important, but if you want that go develop VB.NET. Like I said, if you have a small app that needs out now, it is worth it. If you have a large app that needs to be done now, you should still write your own, or in 6 months when a client asks you to fix this bug or quirk. What are you going to do ? Hire Kevin? I think Kevin would like that.. :D

My 2 cents.. well actually about $1.50 worth..

Morgan