Wow, this is one of longest thread I've read. My feeling is that this entire convensation has nothing to do with Mere Mortals. Keep referring to Kevin is not fair to him. I think this thread should have been titled "Real Programmer Don't Use Framework" and move to the chatter section.

And "Real Programmers" shouldn't use 3rd party controls or libraries either, every single line of code must be written by them personally.