Well, Morgan's already replied to you, so I won't address those points.

>>If you get paid to write frameworks, great. If you get paid to solve business problems, then the issue is quite simply what value you provide to the client. This uber-geek stuff is great for chest-puffing around other programmers, but it doesn't impress clients.
>
>It seems unreasonable not to recognize building frameworks is a very different task than solving business problems with software development. My clients would be outraged at the idea they were paying to have tools built instead of paying to have their problems solved.<

Yeah, but not everyone is a consultant. I'd agree with you, to some degree, in that situation. Actually, if you are a consultant and you get paid to solve your client's business problems, you'd probably have a framework of sorts that you'd use anyway (be it your own or a commercial one) ... I've done that in my past life as a consultant, but the framework part of it was always something I developed on my own time ... I wouldn't dream of charging a client for that.

>>I'm sure building a framework was the right choice for you folks and since you are involved I am equally surely you obtained a quality result.<

Thanks for the compliment, though I think it's undeserved. <s>

~~Bonnie



>I've gotta agree with Allan and Glen. I took him completely seriously.
>
>The idea that somehow you are less of a developer if you invest in a higher level of abstraction is just silly and generally is more a statement of ego. Nothing wrong with writing your own framework if it makes good business sense to do so or you just have a lot of time on your hands, but it looked to me like his whole purpose in starting this thread to chest thump and impress everyone with what a "real" developer he is.
>
>If you get paid to write frameworks, great. If you get paid to solve business problems, then the issue is quite simply what value you provide to the client. This uber-geek stuff is great for chest-puffing around other programmers, but it doesn't impress clients.
>
>It seems unreasonable not to recognize building frameworks is a very different task than solving business problems with software development. My clients would be outraged at the idea they were paying to have tools built instead of paying to have their problems solved.
>
>I'm sure building a framework was the right choice for you folks and since you are involved I am equally surely you obtained a quality result. I only speak to the tone and purpose of your colleague.
>
>>Al,
>>
>>Don't get your panties in a wad ... jeez, he was only joking.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>If you can't write a "good" one, you shouldn't be writing software... Or on UT!
>>>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Know-It-All,
>>>
>>>That has to be one of the most ignorant statments I've read around here in a long time.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Another Unworthy UT Member.