I'm sorry that I cut off your posting (it's too long). My point is that it's impossible to develop VFP app without using Visual Tools, just because this is Visual environment, and I wonder, if someone, e.g. creates simple textbox programmatically. However, some of Visual Tools (builders and wizards) are mostly learning tools which show the way to go first time, but then they will hide more than guide. As it's said, right place for right tool and for right methodology.