Joe,

Ahhh, so it's not me, Morgan and Mike against the world! <g>

Thanks for your post ...

~~Bonnie


>>I'm really curious about this, and I have been for a while. So I hope you don't take it wrong.
>[snip]
>
>Hi Gang,
> We also have to remember that not all developers are developers. Some are maintainers, minor tweekers, and code keepers. Second handers so to speak. While they may be wonderful people undeserving of de-edification, these people typicaly cannot and do not create a project from conception without enormous and highly personal support. I have had the proverbial origional I must write every line of code that goes out kind of developer working for me. (I even used to be one.) I have also had developers MUCH smarter and experienced than myself employing me, working with, and for me that helped me understand several languages well enough that I learned the value of a Bag of tricks type framework.
> If you have a great junior developer and you need them to do foo which includes an enterprise impacting event. Having them call an assembly or hand-rolled function that holds the enterprises hand is by far safer than saying go get it tiger. Now I always hope, that same person will choose to step through the hand holding code on their own, read the comments and ask questions. But not all will. I know the ideal, but, I also know reality. I think a central bag of usefull source controled and closely monitored tricks is more valueable than a real framework layered ontop of a language. I guess that you could have a framework function called DoAllMyWorkForMeAndIDontWantOrCareToKnowAnythingAboutHow() and that function will call functions calling functions calling functions. Much like an end user doubleclicking an executable...
>
> What I mean is the people actually writing the framework are the developers. The people who can only code using that framework are your second handers. If that fits your corporate structure, Cool. But I hate to hear on Dec 21st; "I dont know thats TJ's code. I don't know how he did it. He won't be back till January" I would like my whole team to be able to grab any bull by the horns and run with it because thay all know the language to an extent were thay can make unsupervised progress using help, online forums, other team members, books and especially their own facilities. Now don't read this too harshly, I know I am far from ideal myself and I work all the time to get more knowledge. I have used the ccode from no less than 20 UT people in the past and That code has at times made it into a formal; bag of tricks. :) Other times it solved a unique (for me). I know the ideal, but, I also know reality.
>
>Truly Sorry for rambling on, I think this is a chatter topic too.