SNIP
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>Hi Tom,

Jos,

I think you make some interesting points, Jos, but as you say, it's not so cut and dry...
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>I appreciate your comments but its not only the "fault" of the low cost producer or "big business" or the rich, etc. At the end of the day the consumer (thats you and me) is also driving this market trend.

I say yes and no. One simple example: Walmart, the world's biggest retail store chain, HAD a policy of "Made in the USA" for much of its stuff and fabric goods were prominent (in still being made in the U.S. at the time). I remind you that even at that time Walmart was biggest and reported huge profits.
Then, for reasons only truly known to them (but I think profit is a fair assunption) they removed that policy, buying from anywhere (the lowest bidder I presume). Suddenly the cloth/garment manufacturers were all bankrupt throwing (hundreds of?) thousands out of work.
Did the consumer have any say there?... and in sitautions like it?
Basically we buy what's available at the cheaper price for reasonable quality. I learned after 1 coloured shirt that cheap <> good (even though it looked great) when all my wash was pink from the burgundy shirt that was so cheap.

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>The consumer, of any product or service, is looking for best quality vs. price ratio/performance. If someone else can produce the same quality at a lower price then we go to that supplier. Whether that supplier is around the corner or around the world - its the same thinking.

I guess the above should have been here < s >

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>The first to go was manufacturing, not just because big business wanted more profit but also because the consumer wanted it cheaper. Plus, we all wanted better returns on our investments eg. our pension funds. So big business profit was in our own self-interest on the one hand and to our detriment on the other. Its not really a clear cut situation. Its all very interelated and complicated - economically, politically, and socially.

See above, plus...
Pension funds... fast disappearing here (North America) and being found to be looted by corps anyway in many instances!
But look at those that still exist. here the (province of Ontario) teachers have the largest pension fund in Canada. But teachers have virtually NO SAY in how that pension money is invested! They tried 5 years ago to undo a specific investment and were rebuked!
No do you think that a teacher's pension fund's members REALLY want to have their money invested in steel mills in China or Korea if that means that the families of the children they are teaching (we have a few towns where steel is THE major employer) will lose their jobs? Same for a whole lot of other possible investments in industries that have relocated offshore.
And then there is the stuff that you can't really tell where it's made. I often see "imported for company X" on stuff that I KNOW was once made in Canada or the U.S.

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>In any case, IMO America's strength is not in its manufacturing or agriculture or in "things". Its strength is in its inventiveness, its "brain-power" if you will.

I agree, by and large, but soon it's gonna reach the point that the brain-power will be dedicated to figuring ways to cheat/steal things rather than invent things. Not because there's nothing left to invent, but because with an ever-declining purchasing power there simply isn't enough money around to foster that kind of innovation. people will be too busy running between part-time service jobs to have any time at all for thinking!

um... cheers
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>(Or maybe its late Friday night here and I've had a little too much wine :)