David;

Excellent post and most enjoyable!

Tom


>Tom,
>Good Evening and Happy Tuesday.
>
>"The world is....a Sad Place....a Bad Place....A Terrible Place To Live....Oh, But I don't wanna Die...." (Brothers Gibb)
>
>I've not read "The Jungle" but will try to run across a copy. Thanks.
>
>The Logic of Economics, it would appear, is, Functionally, always the Handmaiden of Motive. Being such, its Logical properties are inherently polluted. I do not wish to diminish the enjoyment of a good, speculative Thread. However, if we were to look at the Historical Reality of ANY system, we would probably find that it has a LifeSpan completely removed from any Template of Logical Constraints, except in Hindsight, where we attempt to evaluate the Nature of the Thing by How it Behaved and by the 'Results' it achieved, and thereby Encase it in Logical Structures not really suited to Describe those Events which are of a Completely Different Nature alltogether. As an example, any attempt to describe WHY Lemmings jump, en mass, off a cliff, into their briney grave, MUST either: delve into Wild Speculation, OR, Report Only The Facts. Sadly, Facts only describe HOW a Thing Behaves, not WHY it behaves that way. "They do it for No Good Reason" is probably an accurate observation, but still
> leaves us perplexed as to how their behavior fits in to our perception of Nature. So, we either Broaden our Perception, or we Demand that a Thing that is Outside the Boundries of Reason be Forced into a Sructure SOMEWHERE within our Logical Universe.
>
>If that is the case, WHAT then, are the Causal Elements in ANY Economic System which are the Actual Conditioners of that system's characteristics?
>Surely it is not the 'Logic' of Me Getting As Much As I Can, for that Motive is based on something Much different than Logical Thought. Logical Thought might certainly become a Tool to Actualize the Motive. A Moralist would, perhaps, call it Greed, An Energetic Entrepreneur would, certainly, call it Creativity, a Pragmatist would, likely, call it 'Dogs At The Food Bowl'...... Which of these descriptions is more accurate probably depends upon which side of what fence we find ourselves standing.
>
>Deduction occurs After Things Happen, Induction, Before. However, it is quite likely that, in All cases, Deduction Must Preceed Induction.
>So, if Motive comes Before-The-Fact, and Logic comes After-The-Fact, it would appear that examining the Nature of the System in which Motive exists would hold a Great Probability of Reward. That Proposition, however, holds some really Top-Notch Challenges.
>
>Thanks
>
>David
>
>>Good morning to you David and happy Monday;
>
>>Excellent points! Too bad all of us cannot sit down and discuss this in >more detail.
>>
>>Remember that story that was released in the early 1970’s about the >distribution of wealth? It came to be after it was reported that 5% of the >Americans owned 95% of the wealth of the nation. It was suggested that if >all monies in the nation were evenly distributed to each individual that >within 5 years the same 5% of Americans would own 95% of the nations wealth.
>
>>Capitalism may become an outmoded economic model one of these days. >Socialism of the Inca Civilization worked for the benefit of the rulers and >people. The Europeans destroyed that concept. It seems like any >civilization or economic system that involves the betterment of the masses >will not last.
>>
>>With Capitalism it is the greatest margin for the least investment.
>>
>>As far as labor is concerned I am always reminded of the Irish song about >the “Hiring Fair”.
>>
>>It seems that a young man was out of work and looking for a job and went to >a local hiring fair. At the fair he met a farmer who offered him work, a >place to sleep and food to eat. So the young man took the farmer up on his >offer.
>>
>>The young man could not get any food to eat as the 12 children of the >farmer got to the table first and left nothing. Soon his bones were >showing through his skin. He complained to the farmer that he was not >getting any food and the farmer replied, “When you die there are more >standing in line ready to replace you”!
>>
>>Business has many means to protect itself such as but not limited to >insurance, corporate lawyers, laws, political payoffs and a number of other >institutions and techniques. Workers have benevolent companies (there have >been a few historically – but all too few) unions, laws and public opinion. >Give the worker just enough to get by.
>>
>>Have you ever read the book by Upton Sinclair, “The Jungle”? That is an >interesting bit of reading and has an explanation about a part of American >labor and management in action. The incidents that occurred which inspired >the book took place 100 years ago.
>>
>>Today rather than hire workers from Europe going further and further east >to obtain a cheaper source of labor, we outsource the work.
>>
>>By the way the term “company store” is a part of all this American labor >topic.
>>
>>When all workers within the world have no more than a bowl of rice to eat >as payment for a full days work then corporations will be happy. That bowl >of rice must be just enough for you to survive and be able to do another >days biding for your employer.
>>
>>Working 24/7 is not a big deal. Remember there are many more who are >unemployed waiting for you to drop dead so they can have a chance to >survive. Corporations will have succeeded.
>>
>>Tom
>>