>Hi Fred, I tried that, but the visible property is not part of OBJECT, I have a work around with setting visible to .f. and then .t. but not happy with it, I've used this control for years on forms with no problem, it seems to be a fault with the container class, thanks for your help
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>weirder and weirder

You are indeed correct. It's the Enabled property I must have been thinking of.