Your absolutely right on three counts Mike. You don’t know a think about me and no I couldn’t write anything at the level of the framework. But that’s not what I claimed. I am familiar enough with .net to write the application without it and several of the problems I’ve had where the result of the framework or rather my lack of experience with it. And I was foolish enough to recommend using it based on the Information that was available. But I like the benefits that the framework can provide I’m just suggesting that more emprises be place on completing the dock’s.