>I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of your reasoning.

Martin, I can’t believe I need to stay up to explain this to you. <s>

I put in 14 billable hours today, rode 15 miles on a stationary bike and I am getting a bit tired (maybe old) of explaining how evil MS is to the VFP community (developers) but here it goes.

MS is driven by MONEY and NOTHING else. They don’t give a f#$k about you, me, any laws or any company as they’ve proven with their buy and/or destroy policy. MS is a monopoly! MS has a profit margin of over 30%. Its return on equity is a solid 16.5%, and its return on assets is a stunning 12.9%. In addition, it has over $51 billion is cash. What’s more, it carries zero debt, so that cash is just sitting there waiting for an opportunity to burn a hole in someone’s pocket. MS currently generates more than $12 billion in annual free cash flow (FCF) and is putting its fingers into virtually every new technology imaginable.

One of MS’s latest focuses... Small and midsize businesses (VFP developers market) are the tech industry’s key to growth and MS is squaring off to dominate the market. These businesses are more grass roots than glamour and their thriftiness is a tenet for survival. They want to spend as little as possible for software and VFP is the perfect answer for many of their situations. MS does not want this growing market to learn about VFP and they will do everything possible to discredit VFP anywhere they can.

MS sends lots of mixed messages. Yes, they’ve got a lot of great software to help us succeed. But at the end of the day, they’re going to compete against us. They care about making money most of all and what’s best for partners, customers and developers second.

>You can say exactly the same about all the dev tools (MS or not). If you purchase VB6, it comes with MSDE or the Jet engine. True, both have its limitations, but the VFP engine also have some.

First of all there is NO development tool for RAD database development that compares to VFP. And second, you’re kidding about MSDE and Jet engine right? They’re Tonka toys compared to VFP for building database applications. Jet chokes at less than 10 users and what’s the user limit on MSDE – 5 users I think. I am talking about building significant, real-world database applications (10 to 100 users). This is the market that VFP shines in and the same market MS wants SQL Server in because it makes them LOTS OF MONEY.

>The reason they market development tools (and the main one behind .NET) is that this way they ensure plenty of software for their platform (Windows) and usinf their infrastructure (Windows Server, SQL Server, Exchange, etc).

I agree with you here. Yes, .NET is MS’s ambitious plan to steer customers and developers into an expanding portfolio of interdependent MS products. They want to lock customers and developers into Windows Server 2003 and MS SQL Server because this is where they make the BIG MONEY (licensing fees).

>I know that VFP is not strategic for MS, and as such, it is a niche product within the company, but as far as I know, the company never spread its death. Granted that MANY people inside MS doesn't knew nothing about VFP, or didn't gave it any importance, but this has changed a bit thank to Ken's internal efforts.

Martin, I know VFP is not strategic for MS because selling the product that makes the most money to customers and developers alike is MS’s strategy. VFP DOESN'T MAKE THE GREEDY BASTARDS ENOUGH MONEY.

I’ve been developing database applications for 16 years – close to half my life. 2004 will be my 11th year in business developing applications with FoxPro as a consultant for large organizations. Over and over and over the rumors of the “FoxPro is dead” or “This is the last version of FoxPro” or “FoxPro is a dated technology” or “FoxPro is a joke” have been stated by numerous MS salesman and technical employees during presentations with hundreds of developers in attendance - over and over and over again. This kind of behavior has been reported all over the world. Do you really think this is because they knew nothing about VFP? If they knew nothing about VFP why would they say “FoxPro is dead” or “This is the last version”? Come on Martin, this is so deliberate I can’t believe you don’t see it! I can’t believe everyone doesn’t see it! I agree in recent years such reports have dimensioned but after many years of the seed being planted it tends to grow on it’s own. Of coarse, you can here it on the UT almost everyday from a little, angry man that I thought was banned?

Why doesn’t MS at least market VFP’s strong points in their own white papers about their database development tools? You can’t find VFP mentioned anywhere on their website when it comes to recommending database development tools except for on the VFP website. MS marketing of VFP is the most dysfunctional relationship I’ve ever witnessed in a company’s marketing of their own product.

>Actually, MS could have killed the product many years ago, but they didn't, and instead they still keep a team working on it. If .NET is their main strategy, of course they'll spend tons more resources and marketing on this.

Two reasons MS could not kill FoxPro - the strong community of developers and the government’s major investment in FoxPro code. MS stripped out VFP’s Rushmore technology to insert into their own database products and technologies. SQL Server, ADO, Jet - all of them. Have you seen the movie Triumph of the Nerds? All of it makes you wonder how many original thoughts Mr. Gates has really had...

>I see the optimist side of the coin: We have another version coming, and I still can deliver applications much faster than what I can with .NET. Some day this would change, and I wouldn't have any problem to divide my work 50%/50% or finally switch. I'm not religious about VFP.

Martin, I am looking forward to VFP 9 and I am far from religious about VFP. Hell, I am far from religious about my own religion. I hear that from my mother (former catholic school teacher) all the time. My problem with MS is - they NEVER PLAY fair. Their real pussies when it comes to a level playing field. They use MONEY as their equalizer. This is not good for innovation!

>What I really hope is that the VFP community stick together, maybe becoming the "Data community" or something like this...

Boy Martin, MS loves developers like you. Don’t rock the boat, just get in and we’ll take care of you... Ya, I really hope Paris Hilton will come over to my place cause I am sure we’ll shoot a much better video. <s>

>But I think this day is still quite far in the future...

I am sure .NET will be great in time. The interface tier development tools need to evolve, I’m writing ASP.NET applications and do like the object model very much but I will not use .NET in Windows development because MS says it should be so. I still feel VFP is the best product for developing client/server and multi-user file server applications. But when MS wants ALL development to be .NET development I get that BAD feeling about MS like their that friend you have that has f@$#ked you over before. Maybe you don’t know what I mean but I simply do not trust MS as far as I could throw Bill Gates.

Peace Martin


>Hi, Will.
>
>I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of your reasoning.
>
>[snip]
>>There is no licensing fee attached to the runtimes and there is no need to buy SQL Server (licensing fees) for many applications. MS does not want to empower developers with a tool capable of producing an unlimited number of applications for an unlimited number of users for one lower price. [snip]
>
>You can say exactly the same about all the dev tools (MS or not). If you purchase VB6, it comes with MSDE or the Jet engine. True, both have its limitations, but the VFP engine also have some.
>
>The reason they market development tools (and the main one behind .NET) is that this way they ensure plenty of software for their platform (Windows) and usinf their infrastructure (Windows Server, SQL Server, Exchange, etc).
>
>>MS has been spreading the death of VFP rumors for years to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt about VFP. MS doesn't want to be the one to directly pull the plug. They want us, the developers, the community to kill VFP. If they can get enough VFP developers to jump ship it’ll be that much easier for them to justify ending the VFP saga.
>
>I know that VFP is not strategic for MS, and as such, it is a niche product within the company, but as far as I know, the company never spread its death. Granted that MANY people inside MS doesn't knew nothing about VFP, or didn't gave it any importance, but this has changed a bit thank to Ken's internal efforts.
>
>Actually, MS could have killed the product many years ago, but they didn't, and instead they still keep a team working on it. If .NET is their main strategy, of course they'll spend tons more resources and marketing on this.
>
>I see the optimist side of the coin: We have another version coming, and I still can deliver applications much faster than what I can with .NET. Some day this would change, and I wouldn't have any problem to divide my work 50%/50% or finally switch. I'm not religious about VFP.
>
>What I really hope is that the VFP community stick together, maybe becoming the "Data community" or something like this...
>
>But I think this day is still quite far in the future...
>
>Regards,