Following your Banks and Java argument, I could also argue that there are far, far more corporations that have VFP on their not approved applications list then banks who will not allow Java.

Glad I don't work for those corporations:-). I noticed back in the late nineties that some VB (only) programmers were intimidated by VFP. It's easy to understand. The number of mission critical and commercially succesful (even in the horizontal market) VFP apps, presents job security issues. If a package solves integrated solution requirements, and is stable enough to cost effectively support commercially, then it's surely stable enough to eliminate our corporations needs for such a big IT staff. Big corporations are shopping for 3rd party solutions that were historically handled by in house staff.

So (for the sake of exciting gossip), two types of companies will sell against VFP. Those systems shops and agencies that measure success by billables. Deliverables are at the bottom. After all, when a system is delivered, the billings for the twenty member team that is already 14 months over schedule and 1Million over budget, stops, RIGHT? . Two ways to increase billables, use awkward big team development solutions and/or 2)a bench full of second stringers.

Software solution providers are like lawyers, system aerchitects, doctors and dentists. 90 % of them are average, 9 % are actionable, and 1% are really good. The taste left in the mouth depends on which band the IT manger (unless, of course, he or she was part of the intimidated VB code herd in the late 90`s:-) has had experience with.

As developers, we not only compete against each other, we are always competing against the status quo. A development tool is no substitute for simple, seamless solutions (good ideas) and quality workmanship.

Sometimes, the less proficient will make the tool argument - sometimes that is the only argument they can make. IF you have no experience or [only] angry ex-clients, sell fear, wine about something technical (like the development tool) and give em a link to one of JVP's threads or some quasi case sudy -(sorry JVP - this is gossip:-)

Subjective inferrences, while good gossip, don't mean poopie in the real world. In someone's special very own little world they only mean poopie for a little while:-). Things change. In the end, the standards of quality will be conserved (for a while), until the next great gimmick comes along and is able to convince the market to set aside the quality for and do some big buck exploration of another uncaring paradigm.

We should kid not ourselves. xBase is one of the most entrenched custom PC application engines on planets. Its everywhere! And gobs a small commercial ventures are selling VFP developed apps every day.

Wheeeew! Was that as good for you as it was for me:-)


>PF
>
>>This is very similar to my point of view, OOP is OOP, in theory if you know the design patterns and grasp the concepts, the language is a secondary decision. We all know of course that there are good ways and bad ways to achieve the same result, and that is where knowledge of the language you are using becomes relevant and a distinguishing feature between programmers.
>>
>>I know that using VFP I can do almost any commercial programming that is needed, and scale out to bigger back ends when I need it.
>>
>>The adoption of the ASP model works for some applications, but for commercial quality work, it doesn't cut it. You rely on a browser for your front-end presentation? The day will come when the browser does not get installed as it is the route to the Internet and there lurks all sorts of nasty things.
>>
>>For those who are moving to Java, do remember that there are many large financial institutions who will not allow any form of Java application to be executed on their PC's due to the inherent security risks, and they won't change their minds.
>>
>>Simon