John,

You accuse Terry of sweeping statements without facts and then go on to say if you do Windows then you should automatically assume ".NET is the logical choice"...


But think about this a minute. If you are looking at web apps with the potential to host on Linux AND Windows, then PHP with MySQL backend maybe the optimal choice. The combination provides a developer to almost seemlessly work across Windows and Linux platforms for web applications. Not something you can say with .NET.

John I know you think anyone who uses anything but .NET on Windows is a fool. I can tell you from personel experience building a web framework in .NET that it's not an easy system to work with inexperienced web developers and HTML coders.

Several years ago I wrote a web framework in ASP that allows HTML developers to easily put dynamic content on their web site. These developers don't know ASP; but with a few minutes of training they can paste simple pre-written ASP code and update properties. Here is an example:

Set oWebPoll = new WebPoll
oWebPoll.fontcolor = "Red"
oWebPoll.ShowPoll()

Pasting this ASP code into a page that is primarily HTML puts a web poll on the page. Very simple and anyone who knows HTML can quickly learn to update the color property.


One more example:

Set oArticles = new Articles
oArticles.PageCount = 10
oArticles.columns =2
oArticles.ShowArticles()

This ASP code pasted into the HTML will show articles.

So now I have over 30 sites using a framework with this syntax... Here are a few:

www.spiritualminds.com
www.churchguides.com
www.dietfacts.com
www.animalsites.com
www.jokepro.com
www.affiliateplan.com
www.linkgeneral.com
www.dojangweb.com

...there are many more but they all use the same framework but depend on HTML developers with NO ASP EXPERIENCE for page content and the bulk of the site.

About a year ago I worked hard to move this framework to .NET. So why is it still in ASP??? Because the .NET development platform proved more difficult in working with developers that only know HTML or even use Frontpage or other HTML editors.

Believe me I tried hard to create a simple methodology for them but it was clear after several weeks that while I could make a great .NET framework that I could use, it would be a lot tougher to make a .NET framework for someone that doesn't know .NET. Teaching them .NET is not an option at all because these sites are maintained without my involvement. I have no control over what pages they make and I have no control over what they learn.

Without getting into all the technical hurdles I encountered, one big one was that .NET's form handling is fairly rigid when it is faced with unknown outside content. So HTML developers building their own forms on the page can create conflicts with forms in the .NET framework. This got even more complicated when forms from outside advertisers could show up on a site as well. After lots of testing and research I had some potential workarounds but nothing that would be as simple for the HTML developers than the ASP framework we use now.

Also if you look at www.dietfacts.com you will see the framework used by an experienced ASP developer who hooked in her own database and rather complex ASP code. She was also involved with me in trying to build the .NET framework. What we learned was that making a .NET framework useable for people who don't know .NET would at the same time sacrafice flexibility for those that do. When all was said and done, ASP still offered a better balance between cut and paste usability for HTML developers and flexibility for people that do know ASP.

If you can come up with a methodology in .NET that can match the simplicity of the ASP code snippets I showed you above, allows HTML users to make new pages, forms, and add any content they want to those pages without losing the main advantages of .NET in the process, I'd LOVE to hear it!

Dont get me wrong, I'm confident there is a way to do it and do it right. But every time I was close to creating a framework methodology there was at least one snag that would make it more complicated for the HTML guys than the ASP solution.

AT LEAST you should also be able to tell from this post that I'm not married to VFP for every project.

Greg

>>
>Have you ever noticed how the "VFP is dead", "you should change to .NET/C# (exclusivey)" advocates resist arguments favorable to moving to Linux?
>>
>
>A sweeping statement with no basis in fact.
>
>I for one think Linux is a compelling alternative to Windows - and an environment that developers should consider. In fact, that is the REAL decision, isn't it? The choice is not whether to concentrate on Windows or Linux - as a development platform? If one chooses Windows, then .NET is the logical choice. Only then do you get to the question of which .NET language to choose. If OTOH, Linux is the choice, then the choice of tool(s) is far less certain. For sure, the answer does not rest with the whole "lets run VFP under Wine" option. Perhaps the choice will be the various .NET port projects that are underway. It is definitely more of a business decision as opposed to a technical decision. I for one do not see companies - en masse - eschewing Windows in favor of the Linux for the desktop. If there will be penentration - it will be on the server (db, web, app, etc.). Yes, there are compelling alterntives like open office. Still, to move to a linux desktop at this point - would be change
> for change sake. And lets face it, the support costs - at least today - will be greater than windows.
>
>In the end, while Linux is worthy of a lot of investigation and possible adoption - current market conditions pretty much make Windows the only viable desktop development platform today. In a few years, this may (and will likely) change. So to prepare for that, just as I said about .NET 2 years ago, smart developers at the very least, investigate what Linux has to offer.