Hi again Denis,

I think we are damned if we don't urge all the freeloaders who use pirated copies, to buy VFP8, and if we don't urge all the users of older versions to upgrade. It is as simple as that! It's all about money, and money is sale for MSFT.

>Greg,
>
>What I meant about the lose-lose situation is that we're damned (apparently) if we criticize MS about the lack of - insert your favorite argument here about VFP - or damned if we don't talk about it.
>
>>Denis,
>>
>>I don't think this is lose-lose at all. You are looking at what developers are doing and the Foxpro community. Yet everyday AccPac continues to sell more and more mission critical accounting systems based on VFP. If anything I think there have been more developers drop from VFP than the companies that are dependent on these systems.
>>
>>In my community there are a handful of great VFP programmers. There are perhaps 50-100 VB experts. Yet most of the source code accounting applications are either AccPac Pro Series, Account Mate, or IAS. All written in VFP.
>>
>>All these VB people are fighting like dogs to get VB projects that are not even mission critical to the company. There is nothing particularly secure about doing ancilary VB projects in a company whose mission critical platform is Quickbooks.
>>
>>More important than what tool you are using; Are you building mission critical applications? If you are building mission critical apps then it doesn't matter what your tool is because you are making yourself more valuable everyday. I've personally believe a higher percent of VFP apps are tied into mission critical aspects businesses than VB.
>>
>>There are MANY more VB programmers than VFP which gives companies more options and make them less dependent on you personally. A VFP programmer can confidently walk into the CEO's office and say 'you will have a hard time finding another person'. A VB programmer has much less leverage because the company can run out and find many more people to take your place.
>>
>>The part you need to realize is that businesses don't know or care about FoxTalk, Rick, or any of these 'guru's bolting from VFP. This makes each one of us sticking with VFP all that more valuable because mission critical accounting systems are not going to all move to VB overnight.
>>
>>Greg
>>
>>>Hello Tore,
>>>
>>>I think that any way we take this we lose. If we complain with new threads confronting MS about the things they don't do with VFP it is probably going to hurt because some UT members will interpret this as "Well it looks more and more like it's time to use another tool".
>>>
>>>If we don't talk about what's happening (or should I say what's not happening) with VFP then MS could interpret this as "Well the VFP community does'nt seem to care so let's do worst marketing than we ever did" (here again if it's ever possible to do so). I know that it's the new rule within MS to market VFP only within the community. But when a community is getting smaller and smaller eventually you don't need to improve the product.
>>>
>>>So this is a lose-lose situation.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Stuart,
>>>>
>>>>To give you a straight answer: Nobody knows, or those who know are not allowed to say anything. The rumour that VFP is dead has been out for the last 10-12 years, and VFP9 will be released later this year (October?). So it is definitively not dead yet.
>>>>
>>>>And, by the way, any debate on this topic will only put more nails into the coffin!
>>>>
>>>>>I would like to know if Fox is on its way out?
>>>>>Hentzenwerke is no longer going to publish Fox books, Pinnacle no longer publishing FoxTalk, no more FoxPro conferences at Whilfest. Is the industry trying to tell as something?